legal/preschool help needed urgent

[foulmoonfiend]

just trying to help a friend out.

mums on preschool committee. preschool is having to close pronto due to financial difficulties. One staff member needs redundancy payment and there isn't enough funds availabe to pay it. commiittee mums have been told they are liable to pay the costs. I believe this is true BUT is there anywhere to get help in dealing with this? The mums will have to find ?500-?1000 each. If it was a limited company, the DTI might be able to help meet the payment but rules are different for preschool which is a charity.
It's a long shot but does ANYONE have any experience/knowledge?
Need to find out info urgently.
TIA for any help

Perhaps they could put their heads together to draw up a list of people who've used the playgroup over the years, and put out an appeal to give the woman who's been there 20 years a really generous 'leaving present'? I bet the local paper would publicise something like that.

Zofloya - not a bad idea at all! Thanks

If it's a charity then flack seems right.

"£5k is because she has worked there for 20 years and is in her 50s." Okay that sounds right then if she's over 40 it is 1.5 weeks pay at maximum of £282 a week or something like that so a max of £8,400 so £5k is probably right assuming her pay is lower.

I'm on our nursery committee and we realised a year or so ago that we could be individually liable for something like this so have been gradually building up a reserve - lots of committee members have been questioning this, you've made me feel that we've been doing the right thing.

Is it too late for the nursery? We had a dodgy time a couple of years ago and the committee at the time introduced new initives that helped. One was having a special session for younger children ie. 2 rather than 2 1/2 - we were the only nursery doing this apart from the ones for full time working parents, it was very popular and also meant that the parents were more likely to be loyal to us and keep the children with us as they got older and therefore more sessions. The other thing was to introduce a n optional lunch hour, which meant sessions could end at 1 rather than 12 - also popular.

It's sad to hear it may close, fingers crossed. Love the idea about contacting previous families - I really think that could help.

glassofslime - they been doing lunchclub thing AND taking from 2. It's just too late.
Yes, you know you have been doing the right thing for your preschool.

flack - to clarify (I may not have explained so will be useful) I was chair and I understood I was also a trustee as all members of the committee are in this situation. On giving up chair I took over as one of the holding trustees so essentially I have ben a trustee all along, but that is ALL I am now, rather than trustee and chair.

V. confusing. I am concerned how little people know or at times are told about the responsibilities of a preschool.

Still stand by the only financially liable if been negligent. Will watch this with interest and hope.

But is it negligent to have run the funds so low that there is no redundancy money ? And then to have realised only now that they are liable. Suggests they didn't really know what they were doing - and I'm not critising them - I took on playgroup responibilies without knowing what I was letting myself in for - I just been lucky.

Most playgroups run pretty close to the edge, financially. Late autumn is usually the worst time, too.

let us know what happens, fmf.

do you have similar liabilities if you are a school governer?

well, parents have been informed and we are definitely closing at half term. You may notice the 'we'. I didn't mention this before as i didn't want to cloud the issue, but this is 'my' preschool, which both my boys have attended, I have been on the committee for and have been working there for the past 6 months, so I am more than a little gutted. But me losing my job is small fry compared to how the others (the 2 risking losing their redundacny and the committee mums) are feeling.
We think we may be able to switch from being a charity to a compnay somehow (i'm not sure on the details, being a mere employee) which may let the mums off the financial liability hook.
I have been in teras all morning, looking at 'my' children and realsing that in 2 weeks time I may not see them again. It's a very emotional time for me. This preschool has been going for more than 20 years.

Is it a registered charity then? I would have thought if it just changes to a company at the last minute the person made redundant might still be able to claim as it's something being done deliberately at the last minute to avoid her payment.

no, not to avoid payment, but then they can get help in finding the redundancy money or something. As I said, I'm not clear about this.

I think you really need to bottom out how you are technically established. Are you a trust (ie did you have a trust deed and the committee members being trustees) or an unincorporated organisation? If the former, the trustees are not liable as long as they have done the right thing. If the latter, you are liable to pay.

In insolvency situations, people who are owed money are rarely paid in full. If you haven't got the money, the best thing to do is to come to a deal with the people losing their jobs, where you agree to pay them whatever you can scrape together, and possibly that you will try to do something to raise some more money over the next few months.

Incidentally, you can be a charity and a company, but you would be a company limited by guarantee and definitely can't do this quickly and very definitely run risks that the ex-employees could try to sue you for avoiding paying their debt.

Hate to sound like a lawyer but you need legal advice. Go to a law centre (see directory ) or failing that a CAB and get advice NOW. This is such a technical area and you really need someone to tell you what you can and should do so as to make sure no one can start asking you for money over the months/years to come.

fred - thanks for such clear advice!
However, it's now almost a week since the announcement and the parents have (finally) banded together and are delegating fact-finding jobs now. I was just trying to find out what the score was then (as, obviously people were in shock and doing a headless chicken impersonation). People have calmed down now and I believe they have found some proper legal advice. But, sincerely, thanks to you and all who responded.

It's just so scary that parents who genuinely wanted to do their bit found themselves in such a horrible (and potentially costly) situation.
And awful that such a long-standing and well-thought of preschool has to close.

our preschool was due to close down in may but we are still going we changed from a setting offering places for 3-5 to 2-5 and although we only do half days at present we will be doing full days again after xmas, we have pulled all our resources and even walked around in our bras to raise money. our preschool has been going for 31 years and hopefully for 31 more. our committe are great and going from strengh to strengh i hope you have the same result as us

OMG! We're staying open! I still have a job!
The committee mums have worked some kind of miracle and become a limited company, the other parents have banded together mightily and pledged undying support and somehow we're staying open for this school year. Found out on Friday and will no longer fear Friday 13th as a scary date LOL!. Thanks for all the concern and advice on here and hope it may help other committee mums from getting into a smimilar situation in the future.

Oh Fantastic!!!!!!!!! Good news!!

that is really good news - have been thinking about you.

Thanks for the update.

Foulmoonfiend, it's been well over a decade since you posted and I wondered how it went for you? I have a fiend in the same position and would love to help her, but don't know how.

ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT

tedious having ploughed through all the complex narrative only to realise it is over 10 years old!!

Please folk, start a new thread!