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Nightmare Childminding Problem

20 replies

Rebi · 09/04/2004 03:52

HELP! I would really appreciate your honest opinions on my problem with my now ex-childminder. As you can see by the time I am typing this - it is causing me sleepless nights. I'm afraid this will probably end up long-winded - as much to get it into perspective for myself (rather than lying in bed night after night worrying about the whole thing) and to explain the full story.

My dd has been with our childminder since May 03, when she was 3.5 months old. I work part-time and she had dd from 8.30 > 2.45 every day. Everything seemed to be going well. I have been a registered childminder myself in the past, so was very aware of making sure that she always was appreciated, paid on time, I was never late for collection, etc. We had what I thought was a friendly relationship.

When the initial contract was drawn up, she wanted the holidays to be only half pay for her, unless we were both off at the same time. I thought this was not really fair on her and told her as such. But she insisted that she was happy with this.

Last summer my ds (who is at school and has high functioning autism) went to my work's summer scheme. He couldn't cope with this at all and I knew that I could not put him through another summer like that. So in September I went to see my work Welfare Officer who suggested that I could take unpaid leave during the summer for 4 weeks, so that together with my annual leave I could be at home for ds and keep dd off too. I approached my childminder (who had been aware of the difficulties over the summer) and asked her what she would charge if dd was off for 4 weeks over summer 04. She thought about it for a few days and came back to me and said she would only charge half. I am not on a high salary and pay out over half of my income to her normally and the summer would be tight anyway, so to reduce my costs in any way was a relief.

As I like to be organised I sat down with childminder in February to go through what dates I would be off over the summer and to make sure we would know what was owing on which week (I will have to work 2 weeks over the summer). I set out it all out on the Outlook Calendar, so everything was clear. I even colour-coded the bloody thing. Suddenly in that conversation she dropped in that it would be full charge for the weeks that I was off on unpaid leave. No discussion, just dropped in. At the time I was surprised, but didn't say anything, so I could have a think about it. End of chat, all very pleasant.

When I got home and had a chance to think about it, I thought it was really unfair that she had gone back on what she said and was going to be charging full price, when she would not have dd and she knew I was not being paid. I also knew that teacher's have a retainer situation over the summer with childminders, so didn't think that I was asking anything out of the ordinary. I decided to let it go, as I wanted to keep a happy childminder. Stupidly I know, but I really felt that my dd was happy with her and I wanted to keep continuity for dd, so decided not to query it.

In that discussion we had said that we should keep up regular contact over summer for dd and childminder had said maybe to drop her in for an hour or so once a week! Well, after a few weeks I started to think, well if she was being paid full price, I think she should be available those weeks. So I said to her one day,"you know the way we were talking about keeping dd's routine going over the summer? Well I was thinking that it might be best if I just send her as normal, the weeks that I am paying full price. It would mean I could get housework, shopping, spend some quality time with ds" All smiles, good idea, no problem. I had no intention of sending her more than maybe a few hours, 2 days a week. But thought this would keep my options open.

btw childminder has two schoolgoing boys of her own and looks afer two other schoolgoing boys. Last summer she had them all day every day, and often told me what a struggle it was and how it was hard to juggle their needs, with dd's needs - e.g dd's naps. So I do think that it was going to suit her very well not having dd with her.

Oh God, I doubt anyone will be reading at this stage. It is going on, I'm sorry.

Anyway....

about 2 weeks ago, childminder says that she is revising contracts as it is a new tax year. This is normal, no problem. If there was anything I wanted changed, let her know - nope I was happy with everything. Then she says that she has been looking at the guidelines (issued by childminding association) and that only a retainer was payable over the summer, so I would only have to pay her half while I was off (surprise, surprise - I wonder whether the fact that she was going to have dd if I paid full had anything to do with change of heart?). She also said that she should be paid full for Halloween, Christmas and Easter holidays - my husband and I take off alternative days each to cover looking after ds, and so keep dd off too - only paying half. I was rushing, so said okay, let me have a think about it when I have more time. All very pleasant.

Well, Easter holidays were only 1 week away, so I didn't think it was fair that I would have to pay her full price with just one week's notice. So the next day when I was collecting dd I asked her to explain to me again the changes she wanted to put in place. I then said no problem, but I wouldn't be able to pay her full price for this Easter, as it is such short notice, but yep no problem for the future.

Remember it is I who had originally said to her that she would lose out by only charging half for holidays.

She tried to make out in the conversation that she was doing me a favour as it was going to work out in my favour that I was only being charged half for summer (which was working out as 3 weeks, as she was on holiday for 3 weeks) and full pay for the Halloween, Christmas and Easter. (I don't know how she worked this out - the other holidays add up to 5 weeks!)

She agreed that it would start after this Easter. All done and dusted. Or so I thought....

Dd finished for Easter last Friday. I put childminder's money (as I always do) in an envelope detailing what was enclosed. I also paid her for this week (half pay). She was getting dd back next Thursday after Easter. I also gave her Easter eggs for her kids.

Last Saturday I was bringing dd to a swimming party and got out her changing bag. Found a note in it. I will just type what she wrote:

"Rebi,

I noticed that this weeks pay is wrong as full pay is due for Good Fri. I feel I am being reasonable enough in asking for full pay Easter Mon and Tues as you changed your Easter holidays at the last minute (increasing the number of days off). When I change contracts to include a retainer over summer, instead of full pay, I will lose out financially. I am aware of your financial situation and try to accommodate you but as you say yourself I am running a business. I would be grateful if you could settle up next week.
thanks. S"

To say I was shocked by the tone in this note is an understatement. If I had been someone who had taken advantage in any shape or form I would understand. For starters Good Fri is not a bank holiday (Mon and Tues are). I did not change my holiday plans at last minute. Her referral to my 'financial situation' is what stings most of all - I have never never paid late or queried charges - honestly hand on heart. You wouldn't think that by reading the note - you would think that I had really messed her about. Even having just typed out the note, has left my hands shaking, it upsets me that much. If she had a query about the Good Friday, fair enough address it, but to put in all the other stuff appears to me like she is very angry?

Anyway, I rang her when I got back from party. Said to her that I was surprised by the tone of the note and that if she had a problem with the pay she should have just asked me when I collected DD. Her response - "I do not have to ASK for money that is owing to me". Where did all this come from?? Well, I was very upset by her whole attitude and after a 20 minutes phonecall, I felt I had no choice but not to send dd back to her and told her so.

Obviously this has left me with no childminder and I have been running around trying to sort something out. I have been fortunate to find a nursery with a place up until 1pm (I work until 2pm), so it is going to be messy, but just about workable. I would not use a childminder again after this. I have been so upset by the note and the phonecall - as you can see it is keeping me awake at night. I am just so hurt - I honestly honestly don't think that I could have treated her any better.

On Monday she sent me a letter DEMANDING full pay for this week and next week. I have checked with childminding association and she would only be owed what was due - ie half pay as she wasn't having dd this week and 4 days full (2 bk hols and 2 days when she should have had dd and one day half pay for next week. The childminding Association also agreed that there are 2 bank holidays at Easter, not three as she was demanding. I am in two minds as whether to pay her or not, as I feel that it down to her actions that has caused the breakdown in the relationship. In the contract it states "two weeks notice required on either side. full payment is due in lieu of notice (this applies to both childminder and parent)". Would I be within my rights to demand 2 weeks money from her? Although I won't do this. I will pay her purely to get shot of her, as I have learnt she is not someone who will let this go. But there is something about all this that makes me feel like I am being bullied and I do not want to take the cowards way out.

Another btw - her ds has been having problems at school recently and she has been very worried. I have been supportive to her through this. I do wonder whether the pressure of that, has spilled over and she is taking her anger out elsewhere iykwim?

I hope that someone has managed to read to the end of this - sorry it has been so long. I will bump this up in the morning, as I sure noone will read this marathon before that. I hope it reads okay and I haven't left anything out (impossible, I hear you say!). The reason for the detail is so that you have all the info.

Thanks - I value MNs opinions.

OP posts:
minder34 · 09/04/2004 04:06

Hi Rebi...I'm not a childminder (despite the name!) but my best mate is...I'll get her to give this the once-over tomorrow and get back to u...I'd say you're completely justified in feeling "bullied"...
try not to let it keep you awake tho (ds just got me up )

littletree · 09/04/2004 06:59

Hello my dear- I have absolutely no experience thus far of childminders since we run a business from home, but I would like to commiserate with you. This lady has made things very difficult for you and I completely understand why you feel put upon. We are having a similar situation on a larger scale with our business which also operates in the US. We have an employee who quit with no notice and then claimed we fired him. Now he is demanding 3 mos. severance pay amounting to $45,000. We are a small business and have always paid generously and have never slipped on paying employees generous severance packages. So, I completely understand your feeling of being cornered and made to feel the victim. I too am having sleepless nights and in the end we will probably end up paying the b@"!!*d off so that we can have peace of mind. It is amazing how people will behave for money.

Rebi · 09/04/2004 08:43

Thank you minder34 and Littletree for taking the time to read my novel! You don't know how much it meant to get positive feedback from you. I really thought I would possibly get negative back - so thank you thank you. That is my biggest problem - I always feel guilty about everything and underneath think that I must be to blame in some way.

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insanidee · 09/04/2004 08:56

i always thought good friday was a bank holiday. thats why we used to get paid double time plus usual contract hours for good friday. essentially triple pay if contracted fridays. if your right, then dont tell safeway

Rebi · 09/04/2004 09:27

insanidee - yep Good Friday and Easter Monday are bank holidays, but in Northern Ireland most people are off the Tuesday instead of the Friday. All shops, offices, etc are open Good Friday, just banks are closed. My childminder considers that she is entitled to Good Friday, Easter Monday and Easter Tuesday - 3 days, unlike all other workers who only get 2 days.

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sammac · 09/04/2004 09:35

Rebi, I feel so sorry for your prediciment. I do know so much what you are going through, and had had a similar thing happen to me. I also use c/m and am facing a diffrent situation which is causing me probs. Don't want to go into it here, but feel free to CAT me if you want.

grumpyzebra · 09/04/2004 09:47

Really sad to hear all this, esp. as I had such lovely childminders, myself, and only had a written contrct with one of them.

I think that we are all agreed that there are no more than 2 bank holidays over Easter weekend, whichever days you choose!

I would think to go back to the written contract you have with her that is currently in force, I'm not sure how verbal contracts stand up in law (fuzzy, I imagine, "You said" "She said" stuff!). And try to stick to the current written contract, if you can, because it's in black and white, and is something presumably both of you have signed and you can't quibble.... I think, wait until a soliciter sees this one!

jampot · 09/04/2004 09:57

Rebi - I minded for a friend's children when my son was in nursery year at school. She only wanted to use me term time only for one child (nursery age) and every other week in term time for her older child. This was agreed and no retainer was made for the school hols (joint decision). I was happy with this as I didn't really want her children during the school hols which would have interfered with my time with my kids. However, the rule I applied was

. if during the contracted time I was able to look after her kids but they didn't use me - full pay

. if I wasn't able to look after them due to illness - no pay.

It seemed quite simple until she didn't want to pay when the kids dad was off sick and could pick up the children, kids' birthdays when they finished work early, etc. I severed the contract on a very bitter note which was unfortunate because she lives directly opposite me! Anyway to cut a long story short I have now spent the last 4 years watching her struggle with childcare and I know she spends more at after school club than she ever would have done with me (and she's not happy with the service). I think I posted my experiences on a thread and I'll look for it.

hercules · 09/04/2004 10:06

I am a teacher and to begin with had to pay fulll pay to childminder during the holidays and her holidays and sick etc just as I would expect to be paid by my work for these.
She was available to take ds and did sometimes during the holidays apart from her own holidays.
Her dh's wages tripled and they became very well off so she then charged me half for the holidays in order to keep my place but I didnt then send him there at all.
I was lucky with my childminder as she was exellent and does no longer do it for the money but because she really enjoys the children she looks after anddoesnt want them to have to settle elsewhere.
I would stick to whatever you had on your contract.

Rebi · 09/04/2004 10:18

Hi all - thanks for your comments. I agree 100% with a childminder being paid full price if she is available for work. I get paid 52 weeks of year (except obviously this summer), so thought childminder should also be. She was the one who wanted things the way they were set up - I pointed out to her that she would be doing herself out of money right at the start.

What I do not agree with is her changing the contract with 1 week's notice in her favour.

This seems to be what everyone is focusing in on. Do you think this is where the relationship fell down? I think not understanding what caused such a sudden dramatic swing in attitude is what is bothering me so much.

The bottom line is that it concerned me that such a Jekyl and Hyde change in personality could have occurred when my dd was with her. There was no way that I could risk that.

So is the general consensus that I should pay her what is owing by the original contract and just let it go? Again many thanks for your comments/advice, much appreciated oh Wise Ones!

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grumpyzebra · 09/04/2004 10:21

Make sure you do get a consensus view on this! But I would imagine that legally you have to stick by the terms of the written contract currently in force (I did read the whole long message, but got a little confused about whether a new written contract was drawn up in recent weeks?). It'd be different if you could negotiate with her, but that doesn't sound possible, any more.

Rebi · 09/04/2004 10:31

hiya Grumpyzebra. No, no new contract had been drawn up as yet, we were just in discussion (or so I thought, obviously was meant to just agree to everything - although I did, but not starting immediately - more than fair I would have thought?)

Thanks for reading through my initial post - sorry if it became confusing - probably due to the unearthly hour!

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nicm · 09/04/2004 10:58

Hi rebi

i am a child minder from ni. if you contact nicma on 91811015 they should be able to help. at the top of childminders fees and conditions guidelines leaflet it says that,

'some childminders may feel that it is difficult to introduce a sudden increase in fees. we suggest that you give parents as much notice as possible.'

i am thinking of increasing my afterschoolers by £1 a day and will give a months notice if i decide to do this.

if you contact nicma they should be able to give you advice as to what they think is reasonable.
i think they are open to 1 today. and yes only mon and tues are bank hol's!

hth

nicm · 09/04/2004 11:00

oh and you would have had to sign for a new contract, she can't just change it. we get new ones every year from nicma.

Rebi · 09/04/2004 11:31

Thank you nicm (I presume that's where you get your nickname!). I have already been in touch with them and they said that she would not be entitled to Good Friday and that only what was owing on the particular week was due (ie dd is on holiday, so only half pay due, not full pay as childminder is now insisting).

Thank you for the info on new contracts. Much appreciated.

OP posts:
twiglett · 09/04/2004 21:01

message withdrawn

hatter · 09/04/2004 22:21

Hi Rebi,

if you had not signed a new contract then I really don't see how the childminder expects it to be in force. Also when I had a contract with my childminder (I think) it explicitly said that both parties had to give 4 weeks notice of ANY changes (this would include charges) - does your original contract have this? If so, and if you didn't sign a revised one then I really don't think she can reasonably enforce a new charging structure.

On another note I sympathise with your feelings over this - I had problems with a nanny, involving written notes that seemed to have real angry tones - I was devastated and cried a lot - it's a relationship like no other when you entrust your children to someone, and it can be really hurtful, disturbing, distresing when it breaks down - I really think that being upset is just part of being a normal, caring mum. On a positive note this mess will all be resolved and you will have learnt from the experience and you'll have found a wonderful new childminder or excellent nursery.

Good luck

littlemissbossy · 09/04/2004 22:54

I also experienced a slightly similar problem with a previous childminder. Whether you had signed a new contract doesn't really matter I'm afraid. The fact is the childminder had verbally given you the amendments to your contract and in placing your ds with her after your discussion, you have therefore 'agreed' to those terms, even though you did not want to! It stinks, but that's the way the law would view it. However, with regards to the notice period, I agree with hatter, four weeks is normal notice period for any business situation and as your childminder states she is "running a business". However, if it is two weeks that you have agreed to, I would not demand two weeks money from her, instead I would write a letter to her saying that you were disappointed in the service she was offering, exactly why you were removing ds from her care and the points you have covered here (send the letter recorded delivery and keep a copy for yourself). Remember keep it business ... not personal. This way, if she decided to take this further and attempt to recover the money, she would not really have a leg to stand on! It's hard I know not to think that all childminders are like this, it's obviously been a bad experience for you ... but for every one childminder with this attitude there lots of other childminders who do a really great job! (by the way I not a childminder, nor am I on commission!!)

sinclair · 13/04/2004 19:55

Have you considered lodging a complaint with the council or whoever vets childminders in your area? Only if it will make you feel better of course...

Rebi · 14/04/2004 08:34

Thank you for all your helpful advice/comments. Hatter - you hit the nail on the head completely in your second paragraph!

Today dd starts at her new nursery for 1.5 hrs, as part of her settling in. My dh is dropping her - I feel so nervous and a bit tearful - which seems ridiculous as I should be used to leaving her, but this whole episode has really knocked my confidence. Hopefully she will have a ball today and it will bolster my shaking confidence.

Missbossy - I like your ideas about writing to childminder and keeping it business-like.

I have written the cheque with the amount that it actually owing, but it is sitting in my bag and I have a double take about the whole thing. On the one hand I just want shot of her - so send her the darn thing and be done with it. She has proved recently that she is not someone who will let money go. On the other hand I really don't think she deserves to be paid - it was her actions that caused me to have to withdraw daughter. I had hoped that dd would have stayed with her until she started school. It is me who has had all the hassle and expense finding new childcare. I know legally she probably is entitled to the money, but morally I don't believe for a second she is.

AGGGGGGGGGGGGhhhhh! Rant over! Thank you for listening!

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