Negotiating employment status

[AntsUpMyArm]

Just wondering how common is it to take on someone freelance rather than employ? I work freelance for one client, but it is becoming more and more evident that really it is a role which should be employed, with next to no autonomy over hours worked, or the work itself, no sick/holiday entitlement, and no guarantee of hours.

Is anyone else in this situation? Or has been? Any tips on negotiating a better deal?

How common is this?

Its less about negotiating and more about them complying wit the law.
www.hmrc.gov.uk/calcs/esi.htm

Ditto Talkin

If you want to be s/e or freelance you need to ensure you are being treated as such.

I don't have advice on how to be an employee rather than s/e as all my experience as been ensuring my services are bought as s/e.

Have you tried the Labour Relations Agency for advice?

Yup, I've been there. There was no negotiation. I now work in the same sector but with a different company as a PAYE. A lot of companies do this to get around the tax/NI etc. The key thing to look into, is whether they are employing people who do exactly the same job.

Thanks for the replies. I had a look at the status tool, and yes, my role comes up very clearly as one which should be employed. I feel very naive asking this, but what are the implications for my client - how can they be forced to make an employed post? Would they get fined or something? And where does that leave me?

I will try the Labour Relations Agency, thanks SacreBlue, I've not heard of them before.

Tbh I'm not really sure what I want to achieve, it just feels like I have the worst of both options, although clearly an employed role would see a drop in pay rate. I can't see any kind of favourable outcome through pushing for employment if it's not what the client wants. Surely that will just make the working relationship untenable, and I assume if I use the Law to enforce employment, the post would have to be re-advertised and I would likely be out in any case!

I guess my choices are to push for employment, be firmer and clearer around the services I am offering and the way I want to work, or quit.

I wonder what the stats are on favourable outcomes for workers in these situations. Is there such a thing as constructive dismissal from a self-employed agreement?

Ladysybil - it's just me that has been taken on.

as self employed you have no rights

implications for them ? A bloody great fine from HMRC when they get their next inspection.

Try this www.hmrc.gov.uk/selfemployed/tmaemployed_or_self-employed.shtml

There are implications for the individual if they are claiming any Housing Benefit as there are different rules for claiming as s/e as opposed to employed

I would definitely get advice and have a chat with your client. If they know the implications for them they may be keen to change the way you work together to ensure your s/e status - or to make it an employed post.

Sounds like a tricky one. I like being self employed because I tell the company when I work rather than than asking permission. Are you trading as a limited company? If you are but are treated as an employee you may fall fowl of IR35.

Its also not very large amount of work, below the tax threshold - does this make any difference to the implications on my client in terms of the size of fine etc? Is this why it isn't deemed to be an issue and they're running the risk, do you think?

Antsup
But the tax threshold applies to everything the person does, not any one job.
For all they know you could be on 50% tax from other earnings so they HAVE to check and comply with the law.

Ok that's clear Talkin, thank you. I feel somewhat naive having taken this on, but have made my position known, now that really it has become clear what the actual status of the role is becoming. It doesn't feel right to continue in the same way.

I completely understand how hard it is for small businesses to grow and the commitment needed to take people on, but if mine is a common issue, it can't be helpful for anyone.