furious with boss over annual leave

[goodgrief54]

I am so annoyed. I have been offered the chance of a free holiday next year and said to my boss I want to go any time for two weeks in school summer holidays but need book asap or will lose opportunity. . She has turned round and said as she wants to go away some time at start of July and she needs to check with family she is staying with when they will be off that I cannot book anything. She has no school age kids and can go any of the other 50 weeks of the year!! I know legally I have no rights but surely this is beyond reasonable! !!

That is annoying, hopefully she gets back quickly. When you say free holiday what do you mean? Is it a cottage in UK or similar and why do you need to book now? Could you book and then cancel if you can;t get the time off?

It is time share points and they sell out quickly so need to book or there won't be any availability. would then need to book flights so could be costly if did have to cancel.

Last time she took 4 weeks to get back to me about 4 days of leave I wanted and this happens EVERY time I ask.. sorry just so upset that may miss out..

That is annoying.

Not sure if you are in England or Scotland but could you go back to her on Monday and ask for specific dates that aren't at the start of July - indeed avoid July at all if you can and ask for those. Go ahead and reserve the timeshare and then fingers crossed for the flight.

That's outrageous, she can't keep you hanging like that. Have you explained the situation fully, and told her explicitly that you will lose out financially if she fannies about? Give her an absolute deadline, but make it a reasonable one. She has no right to hold your family ransom while she accommodates her family. You are her junior at work, not her indentured servant!

well if she wants to go at the start of july cant you just book your holiday for august? the kids are still off in august. you said you can go anytime in the school holidays.

If she wants to go early July and you don't mind when you go, won't she allow you to book, say, the last two weeks in August, so there is no chance of a clash?

If she's staying with family and needs to check when they're off, then she can't go any of the other 50 weeks in the year can she?

Many many employers wouldn't be able to agree holiday requests a year in advance, so this is not at all unreasonable really.

The fact that she doesn't have school age children is irrelevant.

She needs to be reminded to be more considerate though, I would nag her every day until she gives you an answer. It might be best to give her a specific date you need to know by.

Well I can't book leave for next year until the end of jan. Well that's when I can put my request in.....I don't get to hear for another 4-6 weeks if I get what I've asked for. By which time holidays are really expensive.

I think you're lucky you can request so far in advance. And her not having kids has nothing to do with it. She has her own reasons for wanting time off in the school holidays and is entitled to time off.

"Give her an absolute deadline"

Or what? There is no obligation on or reason for the OPs boss to get back to her before an arbitrary deadline the OP decides to set her. .

I don't see the problem - she wants the start of July, which is still term time. So you book end of July. Or August.

I hate sorting out annual leave; we have to do it all at the start of the year. I wish I'd appreciated the summer holidays when the kids were babies & I didn't work :(

exactly flowery.

Give her an absolute deadline by when she has to have replied or you will go ahead and book. She is your boss at work, that's all. She is not entitled to any better/worse/different family and other life outside of work just because you report to her. You are equals, except for the strict work relationship. And yes, this does also mean that the fact she has no children is absolutely irrelevant.

Thanks for your comments.. The only reason I point out she doesn't have school age children was to point out there should be no clash because of this. i absolutely agree that this has no other relevance.
I have advised her I will taken any time in the school holidays but she wants to be able to have her pick of any dates in June, July and August. ..

Is it not first come first serve? You asked and if they time isn't taken then you have it.

The obligation to reply to the (to her) arbitrary deadline is because she (the boss) has chosen to work in an environment where she has to share things like holidays. If she wanted to unilaterally decide when she takes holidays she should have been self employed.

I always operated like this with my direct reports. It's a matter of basic respect for your colleagues.

This is not fair practice on her part. I've booked holiday a year in advance before now and then discussed it with junior staff but at least I was giving them a definite two weeks out of 6 and they could have their pick of the rest. Also if they booked first I worked round that. She cannot expect to get a choice every time just because she's the boss. That's not good management. Is there any HR department in your workplace? Possibly they could help your team agree a fair leave policy.

"The obligation to reply to the (to her) arbitrary deadline is because she (the boss) has chosen to work in an environment where she has to share things like holidays. If she wanted to unilaterally decide when she takes holidays she should have been self employed"

Or, if she wants to be in a position not to have to agree the holiday request of a member of her a year in advance, she should have been the boss. Oh wait...

Still interested to hear what the "or else" will be if the boss chooses not to follow deadlines set by junior staff.

As has been pointed out, many many organisations don't even consider holiday requests until the beginning of the holiday year.

I agree it's not very helpful of her to want to keep the whole summer free just in case, but if she is dependent on family members and the OP doesn't mind when she goes and isn't restricted in the same way, I can see why she wants to wait before booking, especially given it is so so early still.

It is hard though, and I totally feel for people who can't book until the start of the year. DH isn't meant to book any school holidays off until 4 weeks in advance because last year they had nobody left during the summer, but as he is a contractor he just goes ahead and books what he wants and if they don't like it they won't renew him.

It may also be a personality clash as well. I totally freaked out my 30 something boss a couple of years ago when I requested holiday 11 months in advance for Florida. He just couldn't get his head round the concept that anyone would book so far ahead ( he has a DC now so he better get used to it ), although he was happy to agree it.

I would just be gently persistent OP. I don't know whereabouts it is, but if the flights have just come out you'll have a little bit of time yet before they go up in price. If you start getting visibly annoyed I'd imagine the whole process will be further delayed.

Crimea being the boss and self employed are not mutually exclusive. I am the boss for 17 people and also self employed.
They often forget that one of the criteria to be self employed is to be able set your own hours.
That said I would have asked you to submit rough dates when you wanted to go.

I'd say 'oh good, early July - hows about I take the first two weeks in August then and we will be clear?'

I would give her 3 dates and tell her these are the ones available to you which one would she like you to take.
It sounds like she either doesn't care or enjoys holding your family to ransom.

flowery no - being the boss does not entitle you to stop other people (who are related to you only in that they report to you at work) from organising their time a year in advance. What a preposterous idea. If you apply that across the board, being a boss might entitle one to decide on matters like wedding dates and honeymoons, for example.

FWIW I have DC and still cannot imagine booking anything more than two or three months ahead, my mind just doesn't operate that way. But I have had plenty of reports who have been competing sportswoman (has in fact only been women), parents of school-aged children, and more than one employee who worked to live. Their holidays were their lives and "big" holidays (Antarctica, climbing the Himalayas, visiting the Easter Islands and Galápagos Islands etc) took a lot of forward planning. In no way would I ever have stopped them from getting on with their lives just so that I could have the freedom to decide two or three months ahead when I wanted to take my leave.

And yes, my mistake. Self employed is not the same as sole practitioner, which is what I should have said.

I think that actually we may have different workplaces in mind. An employee in a small business (say, a restaurant or hairdresser) who is told when joining that holidays are booked around the boss's, or where the accepted method is booking around the boss...well yes, I can see that in this circumstances being the boss might make you feel entitled to take first dibs whenever you get around to it. I still don't think it's appropriate behaviour, but I wouldn't call it anything worse than inappropriate.

I had in mind the sorts of olaces I've worked, which have thousands of employees globally, where everyone reports to everyone and nobody even meets the top boss (CEO). In those cases it is absolutely not on to hog holiday rights; being a boss doesn't coder any such rights at all.

For info.. there are 15 people in our team but only 2 of us report to my boss. There are 9,000 in the overall organisation so definitely not a sole trader!