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Original poster

changing hours

15 replies

fedupdownhere · 09/07/2014 15:38

my son works for a local shop in a large chain store when he started they gave him a 7.5 hour contract but in the last 2 years he has consistently done over 30 hours until last week when they employed extra staff and dropped his hours to just over 20 this week its 15 I have been told that they cant do this as they have a verbal contract with him as they have given him these hours on a constant basis can anyone confirm if this is true

OP posts:
LaceyLitch · 09/07/2014 16:21

They are legally obliged to give him 7.5 hours of work, nothing more. Thats the whole point of minimal hour/zero hours contracts, when they need people to do more hours they have enough willing workers, when business is low then they don't have to worry about paying out x amount of full time hours when there isnt any.

I worked on zero-24hr contracts for 6 years before I got fed up of the same thing that is happening to your son. Sorry but I think the only answer is to get a new job with the amount of contracted hours he needs, which is sadly easier said than done.

flowery · 09/07/2014 17:04

It's not as simple as that. If the OP's son has worked 30 hours a week every week for two years, then those hours are likely to now be his terms and conditions.

Minimum or zero hours contracts are for genuinely flexible staff, who literally work different hours or no hours each week.

Original poster
fedupdownhere · 09/07/2014 17:59

Thank you flowery that's what I had been told just needed to check

OP posts:
CauldronOfFrogsLegs · 09/07/2014 18:17

Flowery, that's interesting. When does the new t and c kick in? Is it a set time frame? We have staff on a fairly standard rota, a set number of hours per week but flexible so they can swap shifts if they need to. None of them have contracts (although this is being sorted out and I think they will be zero hour contracts). Would be interested to know if our set rota has stored up trouble for us now or in the future.

LaceyLitch · 09/07/2014 19:15

Flowery please can you post your source for your information as I would be genuinely interesting in reading it.

In my old line of work I always worked 40-60 hours a week but was on a zero hour contract. The whole reason is if those hours are no longer available for me to work, for whatever reason, my employer is under no contract to give them to me. Same as OP's son. Also, this is standard practice in the industry for all most all 'full time' workers who are hourly paid.

flowery · 09/07/2014 21:47

Lacey my source is my HR qualifications and years of experience, but if you google "custom and practice" for employment contracts and terms and conditions you'll get plenty of info.

No set time frame no Cauldron as how soon and under what circumstances something becomes established terms and conditions would depend what it is and on other factors.

Basically, contracts of employment should reflect the reality of what's actually happening. If hours genuinely vary week to week and/or flexibility is genuinely required, then a contract reflecting flexible hours is fine. But putting "zero hours" on a bit of paper for someone who in fact works full time doesn't entitle an employer to one day years down the line try to actually invoke that.

LaceyLitch · 09/07/2014 21:56

Interesting reading Flowery.

But this It is usually going to be difficult to establish that there is a custom and practice in the workplace and in the event of any dispute it is always likely that this will be a matter for the employment tribunal to determine based upon all the facts and evidence.

Seems a lot of effort with quite likely, no return. It is clear the company do not care for OP's son enough to employ him permanently so he should just cut his losses and move on IMO.

flowery · 09/07/2014 22:11

Sorry, don't know where that quote comes from, it's very vague and general, and doesn't indicate how much effort it would be for the OPs son to challenge the proposed change to his terms and conditions, or the likelihood of his employer backing down.

I also don't understand what you mean by "It is clear the company do not care for the OPs son enough to employ him permanently"? The OP gives no indication that this is a fixed term contract.

LaceyLitch · 09/07/2014 22:36

By that I mean hes been working for them on a minimal hour contract for two years despite consistently doing more hours and they haven't bothered to give him a new contract, now they have reduced his hours by half, not because they don't have the hours to give him but because they employed new people.

For whatever reason OP son has fallen out of favour with his employers and should just move on rather than tying to flog a dead horse by forcing them to give him more hours. I personally would not want to work for a company that would treat me in such a way.

flowery · 09/07/2014 22:59

Ok well perhaps you are aware of some background information that I'm not privy to.

LaceyLitch · 09/07/2014 23:12

?????????????

Original poster
fedupdownhere · 10/07/2014 12:05

the company do not give any staff more than 7.5 hour contracts but all staff have had almost full time hours some for as long as 2 years then a new manager comes in and cuts hours and employs new staff who are getting more hours than original staff seem very unfair and surely not allowed

OP posts:
Original poster
fedupdownhere · 10/07/2014 12:06

new staff also on 7.5 hour contracts

OP posts:
flowery · 10/07/2014 12:59

Lacey I can't see any information in the OPs posts on these threads to lead anyone to the assumption that he has personally fallen out of favour with management. So as I mentioned, it occurred to me that possibly you have seen the OP on other threads or something and therefore have other reasons to believe that which I am not aware of.

There are many business reasons an employer might want to employ a higher number of staff members and have everyone else (not necessarily just one person) on fewer hours. The OP hasn't given (and probably doesn't have) nearly enough information for us to make assumptions about motives and about their personal opinion of her son.

OP I would suggest your son writes to his employer formally, stating that as he has been consistently and regularly working 30 hours a week for more than two years, those are now his established terms and conditions, and any attempt to reduce his hours is in breach of those terms and conditions and is an attempted change to his contract. He should say that having taken advice he understands that his consent is required to amend his terms and conditions, and he is not prepared to give his consent to this proposed change.

See where that gets him - they may well backtrack or it may at least prompt them into a proper consultation process about the proposed changes. Are there other members of staff in the same boat? In this sort of circumstance a collective approach is always stronger.

Original poster
fedupdownhere · 10/07/2014 13:49

Thank you flowery that's what I had been told but thought I might ask here too as needed to be sure before he tackles work am sure others are feeling the same way so will get him to chat to them as well thanks for your advice

OP posts:
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