Treating colleagues with respect and trust vs preventing piss-taking

[JessieMcJessie]

My colleague - let's call him Richard- and I are having a disagreement. We both manage a younger colleague (26 yrs old, has been working with us for 2 years). Let's call him Bob.

Bob needs to do some quite hard professional exams next year and his contract entitles him to a week's study leave per exam. I've done the exams and know he'll need it. Bob is a normal young lad who likes a drink and a laugh but is generally diligent, professional and committed.

Richard and I have spoken to Bob about the exam leave and during the conversation Richard said to Bob "you can have the time off but if we find out you're using it to fuck about" (exact words) "or go on holiday, we will be livid".

Richard now wants the approval of Bob's exam leave to contain an express statement that study leave is for study and use of it for anything else is breach of contract. He also wants to give him a further oral warning at the start of the leave to "ensure that he understands". My view is that the point has already been made in forceful terms by Richard and it's clear in his contract. Bob is a professional and should be treated as one, not as someone whom we trust so little we think he'll gallivant off to Las Vegas instead of studying. I think that if we keep treating Bob like this he will feel belittled and that we treat him like a child.

Richard already has form for acting like a headmaster and not a boss. Bob does not have form for piss-taking.

Richard, however, told me that he took the piss on his own exam leave 100 years ago and failed.

Should I go all out to stop Richard talking to Bob like this?

What do you mean by "go all out"?

Richard's approach does sound a little heavy-handed, yes, but I'm assuming you've made your thoughts on the subject clear to him already?

Sounds fine and sensible to have something in writing about what the study leave is for though.

Obviously you and Richard have a different management style, and Bob may (or may not) find yours preferable and may (or may not) find Richard's belittling. But while it's fine for you to express your concerns about how someone else manages their staff, really that's all you can do, and if Bob has a problem with Richard he needs to raise it himself.

Reporting to two line managers/ managing someone in conjunction with someone else is always challenging and something to be avoided if at all possible IMO. Is it absolutely necessary?

I don't see any issue in having a written agreement concerning how "Bob" uses his study leave, if Bob is a professional then he'll understand that it isn't personal. As long as anyone else who goes on such study leave is given exactly the same document in the future and I'd suggest you write it into whatever procedure you have, check with your HR department, there may already be one.

The issue is "Richard", "you can have the time off but if we find out you're using it to fuck about" (exact words) "or go on holiday, we will be livid" is extremely un-professional and if I was Bob I would write him off as a tosser. What is he hoping to achieve? Does he really think being "Livid" would actually scare a grown up inclined to use his study leave to go on the piss? Would he talk to a middle aged woman this way?

So basically, Bob shouldn't be pissed off by a formal, impersonal document, he has every right to be pissed off at Richard being a dick.

Yes, I have already made the point to Richard. By "go all out" I mean tell Richard again that I disagree strongly with how he intends to treat Bob.

The written statement about the study leave is already in Bob's contract and, believe me, Bob gets the point. My fear is that he will leave the firm if we treat him like a child- this is based on previous comments from Bob. We both manage Bob as he works on some projects I lead and some that Richard leads.

Ha ha 5 exclamations, I did indeed choose the name "Richard" for a reason!

The reminder of the terms and conditions in the letter is perfectly normal and acceptable. People don't read their contracts on a regular basis, if at all, and reminding someone of key conditions at relevant times is perfectly appropriate and sensible.

If you've made your feelings clear about how Richard spoke to Bob, I don't honestly see what value would be added by saying it again tbh.

And you've hit the nail on the head- Richard would not talk to a middle aged woman that way.

He acts like a Dad, without the nice bits, or a teacher.

I did wonder if that was intentional of Freudian .

I've been out of the HR dept for a while but perhaps "Bob" has grounds for arguing sexual discrimination/bullying and harassment if all Dicks finger wagging is being directed against him purely because of his gender and age.

I wouldn't necessarily say that Bob should pursue it, but if I was Bob I'd be looking for a way out from under Bob's management which would mean no return on investment on his study leave for you and Dick (just trying to think of a bottom line way you can influence Dick).

Is there any way out of this dual management thing? Sounds like a right pain in the .

... arse.

Thank you auto-click and you're scatter gun approach to when you will and will not auto-click.

How would staff normally be treated like this? Bob is surely not the only one who's done these professional exams?

I think it's reasonable to remind him of what the contract says, but if he's normally professional, it's not reasonable to give him a bollocking before he's had the chance to prove he can behave as expected. It's not at all motivational to treat people like they've done wrong when they haven't.

I see no need to put what study leave is for in writing - the clue is in the name. I have had study leave and would have been hacked off if my manager had spoken to me like Richard had and then if he had put it in writing I would have been even crosser. It's treating adults like children - never a good plan for managers.

Surely the point is, if he fails his exams he is out? In which case, if he passes, it is up to him how he uses his spare time to study and how much he leaves till the last minute to do on study leave. Resting so he is fresh for the exam is perfectly legit.

I did ACA training and we had several weeks leave a year. Actually the ones working like fury on study leave were the ones who failed, cos they had left it all too late. we slow and steadies got through.

You two sound almost like warring parents dealing with a naughty teen doing his GCSEs. I would assume Bob is old enough to not worry about Dick, but you may find that he chooses to work on your projects in future.