If you'd negotiated a good part-time academic job

[PTAcademic]

would you go back to full time with young DC?

I know it's not that common to work part time as an academic, and would appreciate any views. I've got a permanent 'three-legged' post that I like, and have been granted part-time hours while the DCs are young. I've set myself back a bit by doing so, but have actually managed to keep going reasonably well with research, though effectively unpaid, because I do proportionally more hours than before. I'd like to be full time in a few years.

We moved with DH's job and I have a 2 hour commute each way, which is fine now, but would be tough if I went back full-time in future. I've now got the opportunity to apply for a full-time permanent role in our home town. The chances of getting it are very slim, and the jobs don't come up often. It's the best kind of job I could hope for here, and probably as good as the one I'm in, except that it would be FT sooner than I'd like, and pretty brutal in the first year at least, with lots of new lectures and seminars to prepare.

The dilemma is the usual one of how best to balance immediate family needs with everyone's future: my job satisfaction and income for the family. DH works quite flexibly, but very long hours, not in academia.

So tricky, this one. That commute is pretty bad. What doe it add up to, weekly?can you usually get some work in on the train? Not idea, unpaid work, but at least it keeps you a bit ahead of the game. But on the other hand, as you know, spinning-up lecture courses makes for more than a full time job, which is entirely contrary to what you seem to need right now.

If it were me (though I'm glad it's not my decision to make!) I probably wouldn't swap a PT+commute post for a FT+prep post until I at leashed wanted to be back on FT. I know this might not be around in future, but it think you have to make a decision for now, or you might spend the rest of your life in sub-optimal situations.

Having said all that I think I would apply for the job, and in the event that they offer it to you, say that you'd love to do it, but it'd have to be part time... You just never know, but it might turn out that they quite like the idea. I've found that with academic departments, they're so used to the patterns, half the time they only advertise jobs as FT because they haven't got the imagination to think of the alternatives. Plus, universities are now having to address the gender biases in their recruitment procedures to get Athena Swan accreditation, which is starting to have an impact on research council funding. They might see the occasional PT post as an opportunity to show their commitment to equal opportunities.

Thanks for replying Sandthorn and for the great advice. The commute is only two days a week at the moment, less in the vacation when I can work from home. I know I'm very lucky to have a flexible, interesting, professional, part-time post.

I'm leaning towards applying because I'll regret not having looked elsewhere if I end up stuck with the commute full-time, or alternatively working part-time forever. It's all probably hypothetical anyway because it will be so competitive, but if by some miracle I were offered the job, I might just about dare to ask for reduced hours. I haven't heard of anyone being able to negotiate that from the start - just after the minimum 6 months - but I suppose it might start happening at some stage.

I would apply, but do not mention your wish to work PT until after you are offered the job. It will only cloud the issue and may rule you out too early in the process. Once they have offered you the job they will be motivated to find a solution.

Thanks. I definitely won't mention it in advance.

I always thought the view among academics was that there was no point going part time because there's built-in flexibility, so it's interesting not everyone thinks that. The flexibility is great, it's just the total number of hours you seem to have to put in that's the problem.

Definitely apply for it - if you get offered the job then that's a good problem to have!

I went back to my FT post after mat leave (DD was 8mo) and I agree that the flexibility is great - I fudge my days so I can spend one week day with her. However, I've also realised how many extra hours I used to put in in the evenings and on weekend (mostly to get my own research done - I'm in humanities) and now I've lost a lot of that time my research is suffering. I think I can ride it out until the end of the summer, but next year I'll have to stop fudging things and will have to lose my day with DD, otherwise my lack of output will begin to be an issue. Or go down to a 0.8 post (but I'd still be expected to do same amount of teaching and admin stuff, so essentially I'd be in your position of having to do research in my own time unpaid - whereas I now do my research in my own time, but am paid - iyswim).

So - upshot? Yes, a FT post is doable, but probably requires DC in full-time childcare (or a stay-at-home partner) and be prepared for putting in the extra hours after DC are in bed at night. But things will calm down once you've got that first year under your belt and it sounds like the benefits of the new post might be worth it.

Hello fellow PT academics! How nice to hear I am not the only one!

I think the advice is excellent - go for the new job, don't mention PT and then if they do offer it to you, ask about PT. I've been on appointment panels and by the time you get round to offering the job to someone you've psychologically committed to having them and you really can't be arsed to go to the second choice because you just want to get on with all the rest of your work! (At least, that's my experience!) So as the candidate they want, you're in a very strong position at that point, very different from the weak position you were in before they decided. It's hard to adjust to that as the candidate within 30 seconds on the phone!

I went PT 7 yrs ago when I came back to work after having DS1. I went down to 60% and stayed at that until DS2 started school this autumn. At that point I went up to 80% and I plan to stay at that for at least 5 years (at least, that's what I told my Dean yesterday when he suddenly asked me whether I wanted to go FT in the foreseeable future). My work have been fab about it all along (and I'm sure it benefits them too cos I feel more loyal and committed that I otherwise would) and my current line manager is great too. I think it helps that I am nearly always in the office when I'm working, so people don't find me hard to contact and have the impression that I'm there the whole time (more than many FT people). That's partly because I live locally, so I find it easier to come to work when I don't tread on Lego the whole time.

I do contain my work to my paid hours. I always did, even when I was FT, so I suspect it is partly about personality - I don't know many full-time academics who only work 38 hours or whatever. Just occasionally I will work on my day off when I've got a funding bid to get in or a writing deadline, but I try to claim the time back unobtrusively at some later point.

My research has suffered a bit, I think, but I'm still doing some (I'm not at a research-intensive Uni - if I was I think I would find it harder to contain my hours then). And more importantly, I feel as if I have a really good work-life balance. I can pick the kids up from school twice a week and I get a blessed 6 hours a week when I'm not at work and I don't have kids around. I mostly use that time to do housework and life admin, rather than fun stuff, but it's great to not have to do that evenings and weekends.

Sorry, I've gone on too much! I'd love to hear about the experiences of other PT academics, but maybe I should stop hijacking this thread!

Thanks for sharing your experiences. It's not a hijack, Lovage - it's very interesting to hear about how other people manage full and part time with children.

I worked full time after DC1 and felt as you do CityDweller. I was getting by, but not doing quite enough and very stressed.

My ideal would be to work 80% and to stick to more-or-less contracted hours. Mine is a research-intensive university, but I agree that it probably has a lot to do with personality as well, especially about accepting that there's always more you could be doing, and that it's not necessarily a failing if you don't manage to achieve what you had planned or hoped in a given week.

I'd love to hear if there are others out there too.

"I know it's not that common to work part time as an academic"

????? I don't think I've ever met an academic who knows what a 40+ hr week is !