Are they allowed to do this?? - Tupe related

[spendygirl77]

Hello there
I am not a regular poster here but I wanted to see if any mumsnetters have been in a similar situation and could give advice.
Basically I have worked for an IT company for 13 years with a big government contract. Last November they lost the contract to a competitor and we have waited all this time to find out what is happening with our jobs. Due to the takeover, our jobs are tupe'd over to the new company. A few months ago we were told that our jobs on the helpdesk were going to the new company sites in Scotland and Birmingham. We had one to one's with the new company HR department. I work part time shift hours 30 miles away from where I live. They werehonest saying it was unlikely they could find me anything that could fit in with hours like I currently work to fit in with my family (I have 3 small kids) and it was left like that. All staff were advised that they should look at the job postings from the new company to see if there were any roles that we might want to change to and we heard no more. We have been waiting and some people have found alternative jobs in our present company and are in the process of leaving or doing so at the end of the contract (end of Sept). I never thought I would find another job but by some stroke of luck I have managed to find a part time afternoon job in a school round the corner from where I live. I will only be earning about 300pounds a month but I thought we would manage because the new company would have to make me redundant as they have been unable to find me an alternative role.
Now today, six weeks before the end of contract they have told us that they need us to work another 3-6 months because they are not ready to take on the work at their Scotland and Birmingham sites, so basically no redundancy at the end of Sept and we are at their beck and call. Can they do this?? Some people have made firm arrangements for other jobs based on the information they have previously given us, i.e no jobs available = redundancy as last resort.
I just wanted some advice as I really need the cash to pay off a couple of debts before I start a lower paid job but if I have ot stay on then I will miss out on a really good term time job with the prospect of increased hours next year.
I will at some point (when they decide) have a one to one with the new company and have thought of contacting ACAS for advice, but I wondered if anyone who works in HR or who has been through something similar could give me any thoughts on the situation. Thanks. Claire

The swines sounds to me like they're trying to get out of paying redundancy by doing this.....in the hope you all go and get other jobs in the meantime.....grrrr......not much use on the HR front these days tho I'm afraid, too long out of the rat race here, so bump!

I'm not an expert but I think that yes, they can do that. Unless you had a firm redundancy agreement they are under no obligation to make you redundant.

Unfortunately we never had anything in writing... deliberately obviously! and then they change their mind at the 11th hour because they are a bunch of muppets who couldnt get everything organised in time so they thought they would use us, like we wouldnt be worried about paying the bills and have looked for jobs elsewhere by now!!. Like you say frizbe I think it is also that they are doing all they can to drag it out to avoid paying lots of redundancy money as most of us have worked there for at least 10 years.
Thanks for your comments ladies and please anyone else with advice regarding where I stand please do post.

Hi, try here: www.dti.gov.uk/employment/redundancy/index.html
Sorry, couldn't do the link thing properly!!

Unfortunately it is legal. All the legislation is about stopping companies from making people redundant - not enforcing redundancy once it has been discussed. I doubt the company is deliberately setting out to avoid redundancy payments.

Perfectly legal I am afraid. The company has to notify the DTI about the redundancy - at most 90 days before and only then if they are making 21+ people redundant. Basically it is about notifying they will be releasing x number of workers with y number of skills on to the local labour market. Until a firm date is decided, it is up to them to set the date you go (otherwise if it looks like an agreement the actual severance redundancy payment could be regarded by the Tax Office as a sweetener - effectively earnings - and taxed as such).

BUT....as regards you terms and conditions, i.e. part time, TUPE is about transferring you on your current terms and conditions and protecting you from the new employer changing them unilaterally. So you may have a case to challenge them being unable to take you on your existing contract or a suitable alternative, especially as the way you describe it it looks like a decision had been made based on your part time status which is legally protected. Contact ACAS and if you are a member of the union, their legal team, for advice.