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Original poster

Refused holiday

28 replies

Sam41 · 30/01/2014 22:51

Hi I work in retail and over the Xmas period we are not supposed to have holiday unless it's a special holiday etc........which must be put in writing to the store manager.

I put a letter in the beginning of January over 11 months notice- and my request was turned down - I put a second letter in for reconsideration which again was rejected. Due to being busiest time of year-

I am asking for 3 days off over a two wk period as I work part time.

Other staff have had Xmas off in years gone by : ie family holiday to oz, Florida etc. just depends what your manager is like.

I have never asked for Xmas off and this was supposed to be a special family break for my children as they are at an age to remember, financially ok, Xmas pressie,

Any ideas I am being unreasonable to put in greiance??

OP posts:
LIZS · 31/01/2014 08:09

Sounds like a standard clause to me , sorry . Unless you can demonstrate that there has been some sort of personal prejudice in him/her denying you when others have been allowed then it is tough.

LaurieFairyCake · 31/01/2014 08:19

Bit short sighted of them. What's to stop you getting another retail job and making it clear that you have holiday already booked in the next 11 months.

coffeewithcreamm · 31/01/2014 08:23

Christmas off in retail? It's a real no, no. Your colleagues wouldn't be very impressed, either.

coffeewithcreamm · 31/01/2014 08:25

I presume at Christmas you wouldn't just be working those three days, there's always overtime at Christmas, which, whether we want it or not, in the real world we feel obliged to do.

Onesleeptillwembley · 31/01/2014 08:26

Put in a grievance for what? You're refused holiday at your busiest time.

flowery · 31/01/2014 08:50

"What's to stop you getting another retail job and making it clear that you have holiday already booked in the next 11 months"

What's to stop the new employer saying sorry we don't allow holiday over Christmas, if you want the job we won't be able to honour it.

Unless it's a case that in similar circumstances everyone else has had holiday approved, and you think there might be some discriminatory or similar reason for yours not to be approve OP, then I'm afraid you'll have to suck it up. It's the reality of working in retail (which I have done myself.)

Gileswithachainsaw · 31/01/2014 08:57

It's 11 months notice to find cover. If they can't manage to cover a part timer in 11 months then they need more staff ffs. Surely if ithers have had time off they should be able to let her. It's fair if it's done taking turns so why would staff be pissed?

coffeewithcreamm · 31/01/2014 12:20

Staff do not 'take turns' to have time off at Christmas, that would never happen!

Original poster
Sam41 · 01/02/2014 23:59

Thanks, yeah it is a one off holiday not your average two weeks in Spain etc, staff have been approved by previous managers and gone off to Oz for there Xmas break, just we have new boss- and yeah 3 days out of two wks seems harsh- I don't do any extra at Xmas as they don't need me, I did my days this year as normal,

OP posts:
Original poster
Sam41 · 02/02/2014 00:04

I've been with this company 20yrs

OP posts:
Rockchick1984 · 02/02/2014 09:52

I worked in retail for years at various companies and none ever agreed to holidays over Christmas, if the new boss isn't agreeing them for anyone then I don't think you can do much about it really.

Original poster
Sam41 · 02/02/2014 20:49

Haven't really made myself clear as I will be working right up till the Xmas break, we want to fly out on Xmas day (Thursday) which would be the day I would normally work... But shop closed, Boxing Day is voluntary, which I've worked many!! And not all staff have and I do more than my fair share through the year,
Then my next day in is New Year's Day and yes we are dead so really don't think me not being there would create to much of an issue. My manager was off Xmas day, Boxing Day, AND New Year's Day, only store manager we have had who has never worked Boxing Day!! But suppose they can have there family time as they don't have to answer to anyone!!!!

OP posts:
PenguinsDontEatKale · 02/02/2014 20:56

Flowery is dead right I am afraid. They have a policy and ate entitled to apply it. As long as there is no discrimination- eg they always say yes to men.

Gileswithachainsaw · 02/02/2014 20:57

Well sam tbh if you have been there 20 yrs I expect you hae seen them through many a staff crisis. Through people not showing up, to staff suddenly suspended and sent home. Through them having to honor holidays despite a sudden staff shortage.

Through people having just walked out with no notive or sent home sick etc

And they coped ok yes? Some how you all got through it?

Xmas or not if they can't find cover 11 months in advance for someone who does part time then that company has huge problems IMO.

Original poster
Sam41 · 02/02/2014 21:12

Yep you are so right I have been at this particular store for 10 years!!! Not lost one day sick with my children, or myself!!! And yes I always drag my self in when I'm poorly, and yes there are lots of staff who don't show in with a sniff, or headache!! Who was the mug who got home from work on my drive when I got a call as the girl couldn't lock the bloody shop and do the doors,, yes I drove all the way to help!! Giles you are right, if I was poorly I'm sure they would cope. There was 3 staff off on holiday last year and they are higher ranked than myself!! See its managers discretion!! Thanks Giles :-)

OP posts:
Gileswithachainsaw · 02/02/2014 21:15

:) it amazes me sometimes. Companies survive for months at times while people are on maternity leave or break a limb and are off for a few weeks. And often that can be at short notice as complications can arise that mean people are gone earlier than expected.

Yet they can't manage a holiday over Xmas Confused

flowery · 02/02/2014 21:18

"Xmas or not if they can't find cover 11 months in advance for someone who does part time then that company has huge problems IMO."

I don't see anything in the OPs post indicating that the reason her request has been refused is because they can't find cover. Approving holiday requests isn't just about whether it's possible to cover the person, there's a lot more to it than that, and if the new manager wants to adhere to a long-established and perfectly standard retail environment policy of no holiday over Christmas, he or she is entitled to do so.

Gileswithachainsaw · 02/02/2014 21:19

But surely that should then go for management too??!!

flowery · 02/02/2014 21:44

Our opinion on whether the policy in question should apply to managers is completely irrelevant. I haven't seen the policy, I don't know whether it does, and I don't know why the manager in question was off.

The point is the OPs manager is entitled to refuse her request unless doing is discriminatory in some way.

Gileswithachainsaw · 02/02/2014 21:48

Yes but chances are that some one will end up with the days off she requested anyway as their days off. If that's ok then , them why not fir her just because it's a holiday booked?

PenguinsDontEatKale · 02/02/2014 21:51

Not liking a policy is fine, but the OP asked about a grievance and the sad fact is that nothing she has said suggests a leg to stand on.

flowery · 02/02/2014 22:01

"Yes but chances are that some one will end up with the days off she requested anyway as their days off. If that's ok then , them why not fir her just because it's a holiday booked?"

I don't really understand. Do you mean some people wouldn't be working those days because it would be their normal contractual day off, therefore why shouldn't the OP also have it off? Well, because then they wouldn't have enough staff....

Anyway, as Penguins said, your, my, anyone on this thread's opinion of the policy is irrelevant. The only relevant point is whether the policy is enforceable or not, and the answer is, yes it is, unless enforcing it would be discriminatory in some way, which there is no reason to believe it would be.

Gileswithachainsaw · 02/02/2014 22:07

It depends though doesn't it. I mean where I work shifts change. No one but me has set days. Everyone else gets two days off a week and is on five days. Those days and times vary.

Depending in how the shifts are worked out it could well be as simple as arranging the ops days off back to back. Eg she does MOnday Tuesday and Wednesday one week and then works Friday Saturday and Sunday the next week so she has a few days off in between.

flowery · 02/02/2014 22:14

Yes but the question isn't whether they could agree the request in a logistical sense, it's whether they are obliged to do so. And they are not.

Gileswithachainsaw · 02/02/2014 22:24

Well staff aren't obliged to do over time or stay after hours to help out for nothing so it's swings and round abouts isn't it?

Not saying staff need "rewarding" to do their jobs but there's only so much shit people will take without getting something back. It's not a very good way of explaining it I guess but I'm sure you can figure out what I mean.

Staff turnover in some jobs can be sooo high, and people can be extremely un reliable. If people like the op turn up, do extra no question , go in on days off to help inexperienced staff and all the other stuff that happens In retail , well if it turns out staff can't even book a holiday with no fuss and resentment then the boss may well find herself in trouble.