advice on contract (or lack thereof)

[DwellsUndertheSink]

Im hoping someone can gve me some HR advice.

My DD, 17, works for a large retail chain. She is contracted to work 8 hours on Sundays. Since November, she and another girl have been expected to work alternate Saturdays also, although this is not part of her contract. This is "overtime" although they dont get more for it, just standard rate of pay.

The issue is that DD cannot use leave to take this day off. Nor can she accrue leave for these days, even though she works 26 Saturdays per year, and should get an additional 2 days leave pa for this. Finally, if she is sick, she cannot claim sick pay on Saturdays.

She is not on a zero rate contract, just on her standard Sunday contract.

There are other issues with her employer, such as not paying the correct amount every month, but other than this, DD is enjoying the independence and money, so doesnt want to give up her job. Just would like the flexibility of being able to take 2 days leave and have the weekend off if its her weekend.

Is this kind of arrangement common and even legal? SUrely if someone works without a contract and wants to take that day off, they cannot be compelled to work?

Thanks!

In what way are they compelling her to work? Yes if she is contracted to work only Sundays with no wording in her contract about anything else, then extra hours are overtime by mutual agreement. If she doesn't want to work any particular Saturday, she should say she is not available.

I'm confused, you say she works 26 Saturdays a year, and also say she's only been expected to work alternate Saturdays since November?

flowery, she will be working 26 saturdays in the year moving forward. She wanted to take this SUnday off, and told her manager she would also not be available to work on Saturday. Her manager has said she must work Saturdays, and she may not take leave on Saturday. She can, however, take SUnday as leave. However, she is not contracted to work Saturdays.

She can say no to Saturdays. And as to why you'd expect her to get a higher rate for overtime when she only works 8 hours is a complete mystery. Do you have a clue work?

She will only be working 26 Saturdays in the year moving forward if she agrees to do so. As I said, if her contract says nothing about working days other than Sunday she can say no to overtime.

There are two options here.

Either her contract stays as Sundays only and she can choose whether to accepts offers of overtime on a Saturday.

Or, her manager wants her to be contracted to definitely work every other Saturday in which case her contract needs changing to reflect that (including appropriate change to her holiday calculation.

If she doesn't want her contract changed and doesn't want to work Saturdays at all, she can resist that also. How easy it would be to change her contract against her will may depend how long she's been working there.

thank you onesleep. read the original properly, there's a dear.

She fears that she will lose her job if she refuses to work Saturdays, even though she was originally brought in and contracted to work Sundays, as was her colleague.

When the Saturday staff left the company, the girls were told they would pick up the slack. There is now no plan to replace the Saturday girl.

The issue is not that they have to work Saturdays, for which they are compensated, but there is no contractual obligation - so although they work, they do not accrue leave, but nor can they take their leave on a Saturday.

They are not on a zero hours contract, which is what this working pattern would support ie no contract, no leave, no sick pay. They are on a contract that says they work X hours on Sundays.

She has also not always paid on time for a number of Saturdays, but has no contract, so not sure how she stands in that regard either. eg she got paid several hundred pounds owing from October and November at the end of December - no so great when you need the money.

Thank you Flowery. That is helpful.

I did, dear. I can't be responsible for your lack of understanding.

I've already given advice about the contractual issue.

In terms of whether she might lose her job if she refuses to work Saturdays, if you can answer the question about how long she has worked there I can help you with that. Has her manager actually said "work Saturdays or you're sacked?"

PM'd you Dwells

Thanks flowery, she's worked there since beginning of April last year, so not yet a year. They havent said it in as many words, but the manager has let it be known that she wants to get rid of a Sunday girl as she feels they dont need them both (ridiculous, the girls never stop working and often do not have time to complete everything that needs doing.)

Nick, thank you also, I shall read it.

Ok so she doesn't have much in terms of rights, if the manager decides to sack her, as she's not been there long she can't claim unfair dismissal.

Has she actually asked for her contract to be amended if the manager wants her to definitely work every other Saturday?

Surely she should be accruing holiday on the days that she works (so including the Saturdays). useful article

thank you breathe, that is interesting.

Flowery, she has asked informally, and was told no. but Breathe's article above seems to suggest that overtime should be taken into account in terms of holiday payment, if not in time.

The issue has occurred because she applied for leave on a Sunday to go to a family function, and was told she had to work that Saturday also, even though she is not contracted to work Saturdays, so now cannot attend said function (which is on a Saturday) unless the other girl can cover for her.

I thought Id ask advice here so she knows where she stands legally.

The holiday issue isn't quite as simple as that.

In terms of where she stands legally, as has been said, she can refuse to work Saturdays if she doesn't want to work them.