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Original poster

Employee not turning in to work

30 replies

wecantallbeperfect · 01/01/2014 19:45

Really need some advice about an employee who decided to not turn into work New Years Eve because Monday was a normal day and he wanted to finish at lunch. We finish at 5pm and he and other staff award of this.

It's not just this though, his attitude towards my DH his immediate boss (business owner) is awful, doesn't want to work, working really slowly, time wasting, rude to other staff. He disappears off site as soon as DH back is turned.

Regularly doesn't come in Monday's from overdoing it at weekend. We've tried to support him because he has had bad time with two family members committing suicide close together, however this is now four years ago and we cannot afford to be losing work downtime because of his absence from work.

Any advice gratefully received

OP posts:
ssd · 01/01/2014 19:47

you need to ask flowery

Original poster
wecantallbeperfect · 01/01/2014 19:47

*aware

OP posts:
Original poster
wecantallbeperfect · 01/01/2014 19:47

Thank you :-)

OP posts:
LIZS · 01/01/2014 19:48

Can your dh have a meeting to review of his absence record, in line with the company policy ? Did he ring in yesterday and follow correct procedure , what was the excuse if so.

Pancakeflipper · 01/01/2014 19:49

I would call him in for chat to explain why he didn't come in.

If not a good reason then a verbal warning and go through the areas that need to be improved upon and do some monitoring/ a report with him involved on how you want to see him pulling his socks up and see how it goes for 2 months. Then have another meeting and reassess things.

If he has been getting away with it then perhaps a tug in the right direction with him knowing you are aware and informing him of the issue areas might make him get his act together or think about leaving .

Juno77 · 01/01/2014 19:51

His personal life is irrelevant.

Firstly, you need to invite him to an investigatory hearing to ascertain the reasons for him not attending work yesterday. (I don't quite understand the Monday lunchtime reference).

If you have issues with his competence, this should be addressed separately. Everything must be documented and minuted.

He has to be invited, on writing, with notice and has the right to be accompanied by an employee or TU rep.

timidviper · 01/01/2014 19:51

I don't think you can just get rid of him if that is what you are thinking, you have to do things properly as he has rights as an employee.

I would read on the ACAS website about disciplinary procedures to make sure you are up to speed then go from there. It sounds like you need to have a meeting with him, tell him all the things you are not happy with and warn him that any further infringements will lead to formal disciplinary procedures

Having said that, I have no real experience of this so may be completely wrong!

HermioneWeasley · 01/01/2014 19:52

Are you a member of any body who can provide you with legal advice?

You need proper advice on how to handle this.

In the meantime try googling the ACAS code of practice on discipline

Or you can PM Flowery who runs her own HR consultancy business. Her advice on these forums is always spot on and would be well worth paying for if you don't have another source of advice

Original poster
wecantallbeperfect · 01/01/2014 19:55

Thank you, he is well aware of company policy. Think he does need a tug back in the right direction!
Monday incident was that he asked another team member if we were finishing lunchtime, was told no so said he wouldn't be turning in at all following day, which he didn't.
Will write to him in to investigation meeting with union rep where it goes. Many thanks to all.

OP posts:
Original poster
wecantallbeperfect · 01/01/2014 19:58

We are a member of a HE scheme so will ring up first thing in the morning, really feel the situation needs getting under control as he has got much worse recently. Thank you.

OP posts:
Juno77 · 01/01/2014 20:02

Not showing up for work constitutes gross misconduct, if you want to get rid of him.

Unless he has valid reason, which you would find out during the investigatory hearing.

Mary1972 · 01/01/2014 20:08

Nowadays you need to get rid of people before 2 years are up when most unfair dismissal rights start to kick in. Too late for that now.

lilyaldrin · 01/01/2014 20:11

Has he had any warnings so far?

Do you have policies for attendance and disciplinary procedures?

HermioneWeasley · 01/01/2014 20:13

Juno, if they've been tolerating this up till now they would be on very shaky ground to suddenly lose patience and call it gross misconduct now. They need to follow a proper process if investigation and warnings.

SofiaAmes · 01/01/2014 20:14

I'm not in the uk, so am a little perplexed. If he's not showing up for work and calling in sick when he isn't (which in my books is the same as stealing if he's getting sick pay), why can't you just fire him?

HECTheHeraldAngelsSing · 01/01/2014 20:17

Follow company disciplinary procedures.

HermioneWeasley · 01/01/2014 20:18

Sofia, because the UK has employment laws which cover the concepts of fair and unfair dismissal.

Sacking someone for conduct they have been carrying out on and off for 4 years with no warnings would be unfair. Asking the employee why they are not turning up, warning them if there's no good reason and ultimately dismissing them if it continues is potentially fair.

The OP has had plenty of opportunity to sort this out and dismiss fairly. They haven't and are now (understandably) fed up, but they still have to treat him fairly.

Juno77 · 01/01/2014 20:21

No, not at all.

It is entirely legal and reasonable to invite someone to an investigatory hearing (and ultimately dismiss them) for behaviour that has been demonstrated previously.

HermioneWeasley · 01/01/2014 20:24

Juno, I disagree. If they have got away with the conduct previously with no warnings then IMO (and I sit on employment tribunals) to dismiss on this occasion would be unfair.

How could the employee possibly know that on this occasion it will result in their dismissal?

Based on the facts set out in the OP, I would find the dismissal unfair (though might make a Polkey deduction to comp for contribution)

Parentingfailure · 01/01/2014 20:30

I had similar with my nanny who had a request for unpaid leave turned down but told me in writing she was going to take it regardless. Her reason for requesting extra leave on top of her normal leave was as her holiday flights would be cheaper but it just didn't work for us.
ACAS told us if she carried out her plans to not turn up for work, thereby leaving us massively in the lurch, it was not gross misconduct only misconduct. She also wrote to us telling us we couldn't sack her if she didn't come to work !!
So you can give a written warning for misconduct but not dismiss for That offence alone.
It's a nightmare being an employer!

Juno77 · 01/01/2014 20:47

If the employer investigates properly, mentioning previous instances, then they can absolutely ascertain that an incident constitutes gross misconduct.

I wouldn't ^recommend* this as the outcome from an initial investigation, but it wouldn't be wrong.

Original poster
wecantallbeperfect · 01/01/2014 20:59

We have always followed correct procedure using our legal advice service, hd has had warnings as advised by legal helpline previously, but he then behaves for a while, the warnings expire and then we start all over again.

Beginning to think advice from professional body has been not up to scratch. However, for people who believe we just want to get rid of him, that's not our reasoning we really want him to pull his socks up but are fearing now he just doesn't care enough to do it, which makes us sad really as he has been with us a long time.

OP posts:
lilyaldrin · 01/01/2014 21:10

Surely a warning for not turning up doesn't "expire"? Or for rudeness, leaving the site etc. I'd have thought verbal warning for 1st offence, then a written warning, then termination of contract was quite normal.

Juno77 · 01/01/2014 22:42

A warning can 'expire' if, for example, you record it as being officially on their record for a set period of time. After which, it is no longer applicable.

So a verbal warning with a 6 month period wouldn't count in 7 months time, for example.

FunkyBoldRibena · 01/01/2014 22:44

You follow your disciplinary procedure. End of.