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Original poster

Not returning to job after mat leave - is there any way I can avoid paying back mat pay?

45 replies

spottydottystripes · 13/12/2013 23:04

NC'd for this as details make me quite identifiable.

I'm a teacher. 18 months ago my school's staffing system was restructured. I was a middle manager on a responsibility allowance. My job title was changed (effectively to a demotion) and my salary reduced, with three year's protected pay given. I went on mat leave in May. Whilst on leave, I saw a job advertised at my previous level of responsibility, with my previous salary. I applied for it and got it, and start in February. I won't therefore be returning to my previous school following my mat leave. My mat leave contract says that if I don't return for 13 weeks, the local authority is entitled to reclaim my 12 weeks of 50% pay. However, I wonder if I have a possible argument that I was on protected pay for a finite length of time - clearly, the reason protected pay exists is to give you time to find a new job on the same salary as you had before, or to make adjustments to your circumstances so that you can afford to live on the reduced new salary. Could I argue that given that I had protected pay for three years, it would have been foolish to pass up on this opportunity just because I was on mat leave? If I hadn't applied and had returned to my old job, there are no guarantees another would have come up on a similar salary. I should perhaps add that if it weren't for the reduced salary I wouldn't have been looking for a new job - I was very happy in my previous one.

Any thoughts from anyone would be much appreciated.

OP posts:
NorthernLebkuchen · 13/12/2013 23:08

My thoughts are that you need to work out how to repay your maternity pay. The protected pay doesn't imo give you a leg to stand on. It's not your employer's problem as to what jobs come up when. Their concern is giving you maternity leave pay on the basis that they retain your services.

lilyaldrin · 13/12/2013 23:09

Is your new job not a teaching job/with a different LA?

IrisWildthyme · 13/12/2013 23:10

If your new job is in the same Local Education Authority area, you should be fine as usually (I can't swear to always) the LEA is the employer and going back to work at a different school still counts as continuous employment.

If not, then remember the only bit repayable is anything you are getting over and above the stat minimum (6 weeks on 90% of normal pay, then SMP for the next 33 weeks) - if that is all you are getting, you don't have to repay a penny whatever happens.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 13/12/2013 23:12

No, the protected pay makes no difference to mat pay.

But if you are returning to teach, doesn't that count?

stollibolli · 13/12/2013 23:18

I decided was forced not to go back due to demotion plus other things. I was informed that if I got another teaching post with the same authority then I wouldn't need to return any maternity pay.

Original poster
spottydottystripes · 13/12/2013 23:32

Unfortunately it's with a different authority. Iris, teacher mat pay is enhanced, so there would be 12 weeks of 50% pay to pay back.

OP posts:
IrisWildthyme · 14/12/2013 08:24

It's only the difference between 50% and SMP that you would have to pay back - if you are on e.g. £29k (I picked a mid-range number from the teachers pay scale) that will only amount to about £1,200 for 12 weeks worth. Obviously that's an amount of money that it would be nice to have but it's not worth getting too het up over. Accept that you have to pay it back - but you won't have to do it in one lump sum - when you start the new job after your mat leave, write a letter saying that you accept that you are required to pay the sum back but do not have funds available immediately, and offer to pay it back over 6 monthly installments. You'll be fine.

FunkyBoldRibena · 14/12/2013 08:38

I'd argue that I was returning to work, and would return to the same school as the old job, if it wasn't for the demotion. So I would expect to keep the mat pay. The wording is 'return to work' not 'return to work at the same company'. It's tenuous I agree, but I'd definitely argue it.

ginmakesitallok · 14/12/2013 08:48

Funky, sorry but that's a ridiculous argument not just a tenuous one!

FunkyBoldRibena · 14/12/2013 09:20

I know. but nowhere does it say anything other than 'if you return to work'...and technically she is.

pinksancerre · 14/12/2013 09:26

I moved house when I was on mat leave, and went back to work, at a different hospital but still in the NHS and the HR depts worked it out between themselves, and I think my new employer paid some of the mat leave pay back to my old employer. I'm sure it will be the same in teaching.

Itwasntmeanttobelikethis · 14/12/2013 09:47

The only help I can offer is that I returned to work same grade different hospital trust and didn't have to pay back enhanced mat pay as the policy is through NHS Scotland rather than a specific trust. Could education be similar? If it's same job/grade with continuous service is teaching along the same lines as nhs in that it's standard contracts etc?

MrsChristmasBungle · 14/12/2013 09:51

I work in hr for a la- in the circumstances you describe we would be claiming back the money.

Original poster
spottydottystripes · 14/12/2013 10:02

The problem with teaching is that if you start a new job in the same local authority but a different school, you don't have to pay it back. If you move authorities you do. Given that I am a public sector employee and ultimately am paid out of taxation this seems unfair, as I'm doing exactly the same job, just in a different school. But hey ho, if I have to pay it back, so be it.

Iris for those 12 weeks we get 50% pay plus smp so I think I'd have to pay back more than just the difference between the two?

OP posts:
pinksancerre · 14/12/2013 10:11

Seems very unfair for teaching to be so different. I moved to a completely different area 150 miles away and didn't have to pay back.

NorthernLebkuchen · 14/12/2013 12:57

I think it's perfectly fair. Sorry. Were you expecting to apply for another job? Because if so you should never have taken the enhanced pay. Some employers will let you then claim it when you decide to return to work.

LovesBeingHereAgain · 14/12/2013 13:02

Seems very unfair for teaching to be so different. I moved to a completely different area 150 miles away and didn't have to pay back.

It's not just teaching it depends on your contract tgere are lots of companies who want you to return for a certain period.

jimijack · 14/12/2013 13:13

Sorry to interrupt but I'm in a similar position but can't get any answers from my HR or payroll depths.

I'm NHS ,have got a new job while on mat leave but with a company with an NHS contract.
The HR of this company tell me I don't have to pay back mat pay, they all have NHS pensions. My HR & payroll TELL me that they don't know.

Where do I find out definitively?

Stevie77 · 14/12/2013 13:38

Sorry, but it's completely fair. The enhanced benefit was offered by one employer, you are now leaving that employer and will therefore have to accept that these were your t&cs. The fact that you are a teacher moving to another teaching job is irrelevant IMO and no different than me say, being an accountant leaving to be an accountant with another firm.

Be thankful that you have very generous benefits, most people aren't that lucky.

PandaNot · 14/12/2013 13:46

Moving local authorities as a teacher is still regarded as continuous service so you shouldn't have to pay it back. I did the same as you, moved authorities whilst on ML and I didn't have to pay anything back. Just check with staffing at the LA, someone should be able to tell you.

JumpingJetFlash · 14/12/2013 13:48

If you are still employed under the t and c of the burgundy book could you argue for continuous service and so not pay back???

Original poster
spottydottystripes · 14/12/2013 13:57

Stevie, it's not the same as being an accountant in the private sector though, is it? I'm a public sector worker paid from the public purse. I'm leaving one post for another post, still in the state sector and my pay still ultimately comes from the same pot, albeit allocated to different local authorities. I'm still educating children in state schools.

Northern I wasn't intending to leave, no. But given that my salary would have been substantially reduced in 18m (to the extent that we would have struggled financially) and this job came up, what choice did I have? Contrary to popular belief there aren't loads of teaching jobs around - certainly not local to me and at the same level of pay as I was on previously.

Panda, I thought continuous service only applied within the same authority - I need to phone the union I think.

OP posts:
Janek · 14/12/2013 14:02

You should definitely speak to your union. They will give you a realistic idea of whether or not you are right and fight for you if you are.

TalkinPeace · 14/12/2013 15:47

are both of the schools still LA schools - because if either of them are Academies, you are most definitely leaving one job and starting another as your employer is the company that runs the school, not the council.

BobPatSamandIgglePiggle · 14/12/2013 15:55

I think you should pay it back. It's a generous package but schools may reconsider in future if people find ways around back paying.