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Original poster

What is an "offer of employment"?

30 replies

Fairycupcake · 10/12/2013 19:08

I am currently working and was looking to move up. I received an offer of employment from a new company, which spells out the conditions pretty much like a contract, only it states that the employment contract will be offered to me two months following the start of the new job. What does it mean?

I am very uncomfortable with this, as once I resign and start the new job, I will have no lever at all to enforce the contractual conditions. It is conceivable that the company is seeking my specialist knowledge, which they might extract within the first 2 months.

I don't want to sound alarmist and defensive to the new employer, but I am not comfortable at all.
Is the "offer of employment" worth the paper it is written on?

OP posts:

Original poster

Fairycupcake · 10/12/2013 20:14

I would just like to specify that this is a an offer for a middle management job and the document itself is signed and as long and detailed as any of my previous firm contracts of employment. I don't think this sort of "offer" is a norm in my type of work. This is something unexpected and unusual.

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TheDoctrineOfSanta · 10/12/2013 20:32

Will they show you the contract now?

Does the letter have notice period etc in it?

Original poster

Fairycupcake · 10/12/2013 20:37

That is exactly the thing - they already taken time to write this offer on 8 pages, which is signed by a senior manager, but would not accept it as a contract.
Yes, it has the notice period, it states in detail everything I would expect to find in the contract, except it states it is not a contract and that a contract will be offered 2 months down the road...

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TheDoctrineOfSanta · 10/12/2013 20:48

When you say "new company", is it a start up?

Oblomov · 10/12/2013 20:57

I write offer letters. I say that a contract will be issued within 2 months.
This is standard.

InTheRedCorner · 10/12/2013 21:00

We do it this way as well. It gives us time to apply for references.

mariefab · 10/12/2013 21:04

It's a statutory requirement that an employer must provide written employment particulars (usually called a contract) no later than 2 months after the employment begins.

From what you've said they've already provided most (if not all) of the particulars in the offer letter.
Perhaps their contracts contain more information and they are just assuring you that they will give you the full contract within the correct time limit.

Original poster

Fairycupcake · 10/12/2013 21:04

They already checked references before issuing the offer. It is an established company. A competitor to my current employer.

It is not at all standard for managers. I never heard of such practice, except for low grade temp employees. It gives them lever to renegotiate / modify terms after 2 months.

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Original poster

Fairycupcake · 10/12/2013 21:07

I can't think of any more information they could possibly provide, they already refer to the employee handbook for more information.

What does this "offer" means?

OP posts:

thekingfisher · 10/12/2013 21:12

Fairy, as they have already made a job offer to you with the terms written down, they would not be able to change these after 2 months without your agreement. There is a contract in force by virtue of this written offer and also assuming it is not subject to any other terms than references which I assume are ok there could be no other grounds to rescind the offer once you have started. If they did decide to let you go after you has started they could do so subject to the terms of the offer ie 1 months notice for example which any new employer could do. Is there a probationary period detailed ?

Original poster

Fairycupcake · 10/12/2013 21:23

Yes, three months apparently during which "statutory provisions" apply. They also state that they "would be entitled to dismiss you at any time without notice if you commit a serious breach of your obligations as an employee, or commit misconduct or gross misconduct", which for me sounds like any arbitrary reason to dismiss without notice.

After the interviews I felt I was joining a great team with great energy and seemingly good chemistry with other members and that I was am going to be a valuable member of senior team expected to contribute a lot. Reading this offer I am a piece of disposable widget they can throw away at their whim. I am distort. I can't accept that. It was a dream job turned into a bucket of crap thrown in my face.

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eurochick · 10/12/2013 21:28

You have no unfair dismissal protection for the first two years in any event. So they can dismiss you for any arbitrary reason they like within this period (but not without giving you notice).

thekingfisher · 10/12/2013 21:31

Fairy both those clauses are pretty standard. I am an hr consultant and would reassure you these are not clauses to trick you . I in fact recommend a 6 month probationary period to my clients with a 3 month review built in to check how things are going. Within any new employment relationship your rights are reduced as far as unfair dismissal etc goes - that is not specific to this firm. In addition dismissal without notice for gross misconduct is standard and you will probably find in their handbook a list of examples of what would constitute gross misconduct. I think you have been shocked at a more comprehensive contract than you have had perhaps but I don't think one any of the things you have mentioned are reason for turning down the offer .

Original poster

Fairycupcake · 10/12/2013 21:32

What I hear is that they can change terms like the salary and the place of work after 2 months and I won't have any power to oppose it. I will be in legal limbo and if I don't agree new terms they could dismiss me immediately without notice. I have a family to support.

According to this offer they don't need to give me any notice ever if they don't want to.

OP posts:

thekingfisher · 10/12/2013 21:40

That is not the case the offer of employment details the terms of the employment that is a binding written contract under English law.

For them to change the terms they would need to seek your agreement. I think you have to question why you think there is a serious chance they are going to do this. It seems to me to be extraordinary lengths for a firm to go to.

In any new employment as has been pointed out you have reduced rights but this is not particular to this firm but to any firm you might move to.

I think you should speak to this firm and express your concerns and ask them to supply you with a contract as this may then put your mind at rest before you start.

Otherwise I fear you are throwing the baby out with the bath water .

thekingfisher · 10/12/2013 21:44

Meant to say any written particulars detailing terms or grounds of employment whether an offer letter or even verbal comments made all form part of the contract - so the fact that they are not giving you a contract until or within 2 months is irrelevant

HermioneWeasley · 10/12/2013 21:47

Agree with kingfisher, it seems they have a peculiar understanding of UK employment and contracts law.

You have no right to a co tract, but you do have a right to a statement of written particulars covering salary, payment intervals, location etc. it sounds like they've given you this?

I cannot fathom what they think they are gaining by saying "ah, but it's not a contract". Can you speak to their HR dept?

Original poster

Fairycupcake · 10/12/2013 21:52

If the offer is a binding contract under the English law, why do they need to distinguish it from the contract? They should issue the contract right away, they would have the same protection.

Obviously I can envisage variations they might introduce, not least because I am supposed to report to two people located large distance apart.

I don't want to have to negotiate terms after 2 months, when I am a sitting duck.

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thekingfisher · 10/12/2013 21:56

That's why I think you should have a chat with them and raise your concerns I think it is highly highly unlikely they will try to renegotiate terms with you.

I'm going to bed now (post-op recovery) but feel free to pm me if you want some more advice/help. But I would just say don't panic or be upset I see nothing to be concerned about in what you have detailed and that a phone call to hiring manager or hr manager ( or recruiter?) couldn't resolve

Original poster

Fairycupcake · 10/12/2013 21:58

Hermione, you are saying this offer has the same legal strength as the contract? They don't gain anything?

But in fact this offer would make me to accept in writing that this is not the contract and that a new contract will be issued... I kind of agree that they can renegotiate. I don't want to agree.

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TheDoctrineOfSanta · 10/12/2013 22:00

I don't think that you agree they can renegotiate the current terms by signing this letter in advance of a contract but I'm not a lawyer or HR professional.

Is place of work specified in the letter?

Original poster

Fairycupcake · 10/12/2013 22:04

Yes, it is. My worry is they may ask to relocate under unfavorably financial terms.

OP posts:

TheDoctrineOfSanta · 10/12/2013 22:07

Bear in mind that if they did that they know they might lose you - they've just recruited you, why would they want to risk that?

Original poster

Fairycupcake · 10/12/2013 22:12

They would have recruited me for less and I would have made a bad decision.

OP posts:

TheDoctrineOfSanta · 10/12/2013 22:15

Sure, but if they change something two months in and you quit, they have to start the whole process again, they've spent time training you or whatever - it wouldn't make sense for them to describe detailed terms in one letter and change them in the final contract.

It would be worth finding out from them what further areas the contract will cover, might be sick pay policy or something. They may even be able to give you a pro forma contract to look through.

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