Not allowed to carry over annual leave ?

[BabiesEverywhere]

Shortish version of my situation.

Got hasseled at work by line manager, Director and Director of HR, for trying to attend relaxation maternity classes that fell during the work day. Despite other staff members getting this time off paid, I was not allowed to take the time unpaid, or as annual leave or to work the hours back. Oh and I do have a doctors note saying that she recommends that I do these classes, which HR said was irrelevant and didn?t affect my case at all. (PS. I met a pregnant lady who works for my branch of the NHS and she is getting three classes off and paid every week (including the relaxation class I wanted) so she can have 6 hours a week off and yet I?m being unreasonable trying to work around 2 hours. It so upsetting that getting access to these classes etc totally depends on who and how nice your line manager is)

Ended up off work with stress, due to the meetings when I was out numbered 3 to 1 and being shouted at and told how unreasonable I was being etc.

Whilst I was signed of sick I was bothered at home with phone calls and email to my personal accounts and my private mobile number, by the Director who wanted me back at work...I lost of a lot of weight due to lack of sleep and eating because I felt so bullied. My midwife wanted me to stay off work as she was concerned about the affect on my health.

Went back to work a few weeks later (against doctors advice) to be shouted at by line manager again, as I requested via health and safety to be exempt from a piece of work which involved carrying heavy equipment up stairs and climbing up and under desks to wire in stuff.

Please note this work was NOT part of my regular job just done as a favor, plus they exempted a 3 month pregnant girl from this piece of work last year but wanted me to still do it at 6.5 months pregnant and they have two other members of staff who are equally trained up in how to do this work !!!

Went back off work sick again and I'm now signed off until I am 37 weeks pregnant, though the doctors don't want me to go back until after the baby is born (neither do I)

So I am trying to sort out my maternity leave date and outstanding annual leave.

Having trouble arranging maternity date thoughout this saga, as I was told that the decision was up to my line manager not me, as to when I went on maternity. My line manager told me any date she agreed would not be set in stone, as if any work came in, I would have to work a week or two to complete it before I went on maternity leave. Which I feel is unreasonable as I wanted to go off at 37 weeks, hardly early.

I have been speaking to HR regarding my annual leave, as I have 6 weeks to take. Partly as my line manager has been refusing my annual leave requests when I was in work, HR knew this but said they couldn?t help and that annual leave was at the discretion of my line manager.

I have requested to take 3 weeks before I go on maternity leave i.e. weeks 37 to 40 (even though the doctors will sign a note for this time if I asked but I felt it was fair to do what I would have done, if I had not had any problems at work), HR have agreed I can take.

But they have told me I can not take the other three weeks at all. This is a precious three weeks which I wanted to spend after the birth with my newborn baby and I am very upset that I can?t have it.

HR have said that I can not take it between my paid and unpaid maternity leave, they will not carry it over to the next financial year nor pay me the holiday instead but that they?ll compromise. I asked what comprise is available and they said they would have to think about it, but if I can?t take, transfer or get paid what other option is there ?

I am so sick of this situation. I am half way though writing a grievance about my situation regarding the line manager and director (not that work know that yet) with the help of the union rep and I suppose I?ll just add this to the end of it.

Is there anything I should be doing to retrieve my annual leave or is HR right that I have to lose it ?

Plate of cyber chocolate biscuits to anyone that managed to read this massive post without dropping asleep ;)

i thought that when on maternity leave you were stil entitked to yiur al quota. certainly in local council you are. i have just agreed with my council tp pay me 6 months al quota as i i carried it on i would not be there du to al!. certainly get them on discrimintion as you have already noted a difference in attiudes. even right to ur line manager stating the discepancy and mention the word discrimination and harresment that should make them change.(used to be an equal ops officer)

To be honest I think I have given up on the annual leave as a bad cause.

I'm too hot and pregnant to chase this any further and when it comes down to it all I can think about is my baby and that is the most important thing in the world next to my DH.

CheesyFeet, Enjoy your night in with nice meal and I have all my fingers crossed that you have a perfect romantic evening with your DH.

PS. My DH has sent an email inviting you and your family around for a BBQ/Birthday thing, can't remember the date should be on the email.

Hi BabiesEverywhere. I wrote a reply earlier which I couldn't post but have managed to get that sorted out now so was just wondering whether you felt you had decided what to do since I don't want to drag it up/muddy the waters if you have. The ending was that I hope you get it all sorted out happily in the end! If you are looking for more opinions will post tomorrow.

You really need to get legal on these people. They CANNOT dictate your ML date (my line manager tried to do this).

They CANNOT refuse you paid time off for antenatal appointments AND classes.

They CANNOT reasonably refuse your annual leave and not pay you it in lieu.

They MUST carry out a risk assessment on all pg women. Its the law.

ACAS are a conciliatory organisation, so as such cant dictate or be firm with anyone. I would strongly recommend you start using the phrase Employment Law, and Employment Tribunal alot more in your discussions.

They are discriminating against you because of your pregnancy which counts as sex discrimination (cant remember if its directly or indirectly).

I have to agree with twocatsonthebed, this smacks of constructive dismissal.

Is your line manager trying to make life so unbearable for you that you want to resign? Well don't!!!!! Get signed off sick. Get legal advice and fight back.

I have been in your shoes so I can fully sympatise.

And, if it is any consolation, I got a very nice large out of court settlement. They did not want the bad publicity that this sort of thing would bring. My solicitor did not charge a lot either. He did a few letters outlining my rights and maternity rights and said he would see them in court. THEY ARE BULLYING YOU.

BE, if you fight now, you will have a better chance of time off with your baby without all this hanging over you.

Agree with everyone who's said to talk someone who knows employment law.

babieseverywhere, i think you are probably right to leave it for now and concentrate on your health and your baby but don't drop it altogether, if your requests for annual leave have been refused, leaving you in a position where it is out of your control that you cannot take them before maternity leave you have a strong case. What has your union rep done about this? they should help,let them fight it for you & concentrate on yourself. If you need help my MIL is an NHS union rep and would certainly give advice, you may be able to get those few precious weeks off and every week is precious when on maternity leave! It sounds to me like your boss has a problem with your pregnancy, I gather it is a woman, is she trying for a baby unsuccessfully herself? is she jealous?

Hi BabiesEverywhere, perhaps I will try and recreate my post since I seem to have dragged this back up, sorry. It was along the lines of;

This doesn't surprise me at all I work for the NHS too and it is similar to my experience.
You might be able to download policies on the intranet, more and more trusts seem to have them there now.
Everywhere I've worked recently has a "use it or loose it" policy towards annual leave ie must be used in that leave year, can't be carried over/paid out (it always states they reserve the right to make exceptions but seems to be only for a day or two etc.). My understanding is that not being allowed to take leave is not an acceptable reason to be allowed to carry it over but I guess everywhere differs on that one.

The second part of my post was along the lines of could there be a hidden agenda? There are widespread redundancies here and also contracts not being renewed, if this happened to you then I gather there would be no pay off associated with it. If you leave this job then you would presumably need to use it for a reference? I would think about what you want to achieve and what is important to you. There is considerable time and stress associated with taking your employer to an employment tribunal and your settlement would probably not be that big. (I know everything is relative and if you have no money coming in then any is great but if it makes it very difficult for you to get another job then how much do you need? and would you get it?)

The next bit was something about some areas in the NHS have things very sorted (possibly because they were traditionally female dominated or it is essential like working with cytotoxics) but many do not. If I was to talk to my current boss about time off for relaxation classes or health and safety assessments then I might as well speak in Dutch!

The final bit is that as I understand it if you are off work for a pregnancy related illness after a certain point then it becomes automatic that your maternity leave has started, otherwise you can choose your dates (within limits) but there certainly used to be strict rules about who and when to contact etc. Also I think you are allowed paid time off for any classes or appointments (with a confirming medical letter). Hope that helps and good luck.

Hi, just wanted to say that I didn't mean anything derogatory about people who are having problems getting pregnant, its just that emotional trauma can make people bave strangely and some of the stuff happening to babieseverywhere smacks of someone behaving irrationally, or maybe its wholly intentional having read the last posting, take union or equal ops advice!!

Have only read the OP. I think you should get signed off for the time up to 40 weeks. Although if you are off for pregnancy related reasons, your company can force you to start maternity leave at 36 weeks. But, frankly it doesn't sound like they are very informed on maernity laws, so they may not think to do this.

My company paid me for all holiday which I had accrued when I went on mat. leave. My company is by no means generous in the benefits department. So, I suspect they were legally required to do this.

They are treating you in an appaulling manor. You definately have have grounds for a grievance. Gather your evidence and stay strong.

Oh, and when you take maternity leave is your choice, not theirs.

"The earliest date a woman can start her maternity leave is the beginning of the eleventh week before the baby is expected. She must provide her employer with details of the week the baby is expected and the start date of her maternity leave. The employer must respond to this notification within 28 days and state the date the woman is expected to return to work after she finishes her full maternity leave entitlement, either Ordinary Maternity Leave or Additional Maternity Leave."

See CIPD

The arrangements for annual holiday are contractual i.e. whether or not you can carry them over or get paid. It looks like you will lose 3 weeks, but listen to what HR have to say.

Put in writing to your Line Manager, copied to HR that you wish to start your maternity leave on x date (make it a day or two before your EDD) and that you wish to use 3 weeks of your annual leave to cover the period between when your sick note ends and that date.

Keep it simple and matter of fact - don't go into any explanations.

That way, you also have it in writing for any greivance procedures.