Facing redundancy just prior to starting maternity leave, advice needed

[Swizzel]

Hi All

I am currently signed off work with a pregnancy-related illness, with my maternity leave is due to start on 1st October. Last week, I attended a meeting with my employer to discuss my SMP, and to get the figures officially confirmed in writing. At the end of this meeting, I was then informed that the part of the business in which I work is being closed down at the end of November, and therefore redundancies will have to be made, although there was a possibility that a job for one of two of us may be available at a different location.

I today received a letter from my employer inviting me to attend a redundancy consultation meeting this coming Thursday. I have done some reading up on redundancy whilst pregnant, and everything I see points to my being in a 'safer' position if I am made redundant after my maternity leave begins, as opposed to beforehand. Does this therefore mean that I would be in a better position if I postpone this meeting until the following week?

I realise it sounds selfish to be contemplating doing so, because of course my fellow workers are all facing redundancy and I would imagine that we are all equally terrified of losing our jobs. I don't know exactly what a redunancy consultation meeting involves, and whether there is a conclusion at the end of it, or if further meetings have to be held. All I know is that I want to protect myself and my family from all of the worry that this entails. From what I do understand, regardless of what happens I will still be entitled to SMP, which at least gives us some breathing space.

Is there anybody who has experience and knowledge in this area who can offer me some advice please? Failing that, a chocolate biscuit to calm my nerves and lower my blood pressure would be more than welcome!

(Not hr professional but have been through the procesd!)

The first meeting may well be with all those st risk ie it may go ahead whether you go or not as others may be going. A letter comes out after this so you would get that anyway.

There will probably then be individual meetings and an indication of when you will find out the criteria for deciding redundancies. A second individual meeting may be arranged where you can talk about alternatives eg voluntary redundancies, reducing hours.

There will later be a meeting to inform you of decisions. There should be at least five days between the first meeting and the decision meeting.

I am not sure what adjustments get made for maternity leave. If you are sick I think in some cases the employer can come to you if that helps achieve proper consultation.

Hope that helps a bit and bumping for the experts too.

My understanding is that the same protection applies throughout pregnancy/maternity. Regardless of this, it is fair to assume your maternity leave will have commenced part way through the consultation given the process is only starting now and you are commencing mat leave on the 01 Oct.

The main protection you gain is from the Maternity & Parental Leave Regs (MAPLE), therefore if you have not checked this out yet it is worth researching. ACAS also have some really good reading which I found useful at:

www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/r/f/Managing-redundancy-for-pregnant-employees-or-those-on-maternity-leave-accessible-version.pdf

I would attend the meeting and ask as many questions about the current situation the business faces, what your options are and the process the consultation will follow. You will be entitled to be accompanied to the meeting, so ensure you take up this offer so you can ask all the questions you have and ideally your companion can take down lots of notes on your behalf (regardless of formal minutes being taken). Don't be afraid to push for answers on any of your questions - the employer must be open and honest with you.

From a personal perspective, I know how stressful the situation is, however you are best to stay level headed and open to discussion with your employer. Once the first meeting is concluded you should be in a far better position to understand your options and then you can decide what your next steps should be.

Hope this is useful, and good luck with the first meeting.

Drifa

Thank you both, ModeratelyObvious and Drifa, for your replies. You've given me a lot of really useful information and I feel a little less unsettled now that I've read your posts and viewed the ACAS document.

The letter regarding the meeting does say that I am entitled to ask a fellow employee to attend the meeting with me, but considering everyone in my department is in the same boat, I'm not sure that it would be appropriate to ask one of them. As we have been asked not to discuss the matter with any other employees outside of our department, this doesn't really give much scope. Perhaps I could ask whether it would be possible to record the meeting on a dictaphone so that I can replay it afterwards because I know I'm bound to forget some of what is said.

Thanks again to both of you, I love how helpful people are on mumsnet. Reading the forums with a cup of tea and a biccie in the mornings has become a part of my daily routine!

You do not have the same protection during pregnancy as you do during maternity leave.

If your employment is due to end because of redundancy while you are on maternity leave, and there is a suitable alternative available, you must be offered it without being expected to compete with others. The same does not apply before maternity leave starts.

So if there are vacancies which would/could be considered a suitable alternative, it would be better for you if the redundancy doesn't take effect until after you've started maternity leave.

Your employer should have given you a timescale of what will be happening, but either way, it seems unlikely that you'll be out of a job within 3 working days of a consultation meeting. However it's not entirely outside the realms of possibility, partially depending on whether your employer has the contractual right to pay you in lieu of notice and also to what extent a very short consultation period would be reasonable. It's pretty unlikely, but technically possible.

There is no specified 5 day waiting period between consultation and decision. In circumstances as you describe, where there is more than one person affected and there are other roles at a different location to discuss and consider, a shorter consultation period is very unlikely to be workable or reasonable, however there is a technical possibility. You'd be able to appeal on the basis that consultation wasn't adequate, but there is a possibility there.

If you are at all concerned that this might happen, and you think there are suitable positions available, or might be, then you could consider postponing the consultation to push the whole thing back slightly.

A position at a different location might be considered a "suitable alternative" or might not, depending on the circumstances.

To add my tuppence worth, I accepted redundancy at 38 weeks pregnant last December. Which on reflection, was actually really fortunate, although I wasn't so happy at the time.

I had been with the company long enough (blue chip co) to get a decent pay out which means I can afford to take much longer 'maternity'.

The job I was in I was expecting to go back at 16 weeks ish and it was very full on/long hours. Instead, I have had the best summer of my life with the baby. I will probably need to look for a new job at the end of the year, but my priorities now are different - I want to earn to support my family, but I would rather compromise on some 'nice things' (cars and holidays and so on) and have more time at home than earn big bucks/work gruelling hours/miss my child growing up.

Only you know your personal financial situation, but if this is your first it is impossible for anyone to explain how you might feel once nipper arrives (I also have friends who couldn't wait for mat leave to end and get back to the 'real world'!).

Update on my situation, and another question or two: I attended my consultation meeting today, and was advised that the redundancies will not come into effect until 25th October, which obviously takes me into my maternity leave.

I was told that there are 2 positions available in another branch of the company (both of which are the same role, one Mon-Wed, another Wed-Fri), and the new place of work is actually closer to my home travel-wise. However, they are a downgrade from my current position and, coupled with them only being for 3 days per week, obviously the hourly wage would also be less. I have been given until the end of the week to decide whether I wish to apply for either of these roles, as the interviews for them will be next week. If I choose not to apply, then I will be made redundant. My employer did say to me that I could take voluntary redundancy and that perhaps a suitable role would come up within the company towards the end of my maternity leave, in which case they would let me know, but that's really just a wish and a prayer in my eyes.

Having given it some thought, I believe that working for 3 days a week might actually be a good thing for me, as it will give me more time with the baby and less responsibilty work-wise, so less stress. However, I am aware that there are at least 4 other people who will also be applying for these roles, and whilst my employer starts every meeting with 'you will not be discriminated against because of your pregnancy' I feel at a disadvantage in so much as the new roles begin in November, and I will be on maternity leave awaiting the arrival of the baby at that point. I realise that were I to be unsuccessful in getting one of the new positions, it certainly wouldn't be said to me that it was because I wasn't able to start in November as my employer would be open to a discrimination case. I'm sure my employers are bright enough to come up with a better reason for not offering me the role, but I would certainly feel that my being on maternity leave was the main reason.

I should add that the new jobs available are actually what I was doing 12 months ago with the company, before I was promoted to my current position, so I know that I am more than capable of doing the work.

I have been reading up on ACAS about employers being obliged to offer employees on maternity leave suitable alternative roles, but as the new role would be less hours and less pay, I'm not sure whether this therefore actually applies in my case? Does anybody have any more information on this which would be of help please?

It wouldn't apply, no. Suitable alternative roles need to be suitable for your skills and experience and the terms and conditions need to be the same or no less favourable. As this is fewer hours and I imagine a lower hourly rate I think you'd struggle to argue that it should be offered to you directly, and by giving you preference rather than having a fair selection process, the employer would be opening themselves up to claims of unfair dismissal from the other candidates involved.

Difficult I know, but there is a good option for your employer here. They could offer you the role, and then offer one of the other candidates the role for the duration of your maternity leave. Something else may have come up by the time you return, thus saving them redundancy for one person.

Thanks flowery, I thought that would be the case. The option you mentioned is a good one, any glimmer of hope is worth taking a shot at!

I guess for now I just have to sit back and see what happens. The silver lining is that at least I will still get my SMP, which I assume covers me regarding tax credits even if I do get made redundant, as it gives me a regular monthly income.