Sick leave due to stress and bullying - are "welfare visits" complusory?

[CheesyPoofs]

Hi I'm asking this on behalf of someone else who is currently off work sick with stress due to a combination of personal issues and an unsympathetic and bullying manager.

He has been off for 3 weeks now and has sent in all relevant sick notes.

In that time the managers (2 of them) have rung him about 10 times and sent 2 slightly threatening letters regarding loss of sick pay, which is adding to his stress.

He has requested a change of line management due to the bullying issue. The top manager is now refusing to discuss this over the phone and is insisting on a "welfare visit".

My friend doesn't want to meet face to face because of the stress / bullying issue and feels that the top manager can just let him know the outcome of his request over the phone.

Does anyone know what are my friend's rights here, and how should be proceed?

Bump

It's not the top manager who is bullying him?

I think in that case it's absolutely right for the top manager to want to meet with your friend to discuss his request, the reasons for it and to what extent allowing the change will facilitate his return to work.

He doesn't have to allow the visit if he doesn't want to, but if he doesn't want to speak to the top manager face to face it's difficult to see how easily this could get resolved tbh.

Has your friend raised a grievance about the bullying?

No it's his immediate line manager who is bullying him, not the top manager and yes he's raised a grievance.

If he meets the top manager is he allowed to take a union rep?

I think he's worried the top manager won't listen to his concerns, won't grant his request for change of line management and pressurise him into coming straight back into work under the bullying manager.

He also thinks the top manager with be the one who hears the formal grievance, and as the managers are all mates they'll stick together and nothing will change.

Do you know if the request of a change of line manager is a reasonable request given the circumstances? There are 3 managers altogether so 2 possible other people who could manage him.

Although it might be possible for your friend to have a different line manager, the top manager has a responsibility to check that your friend's current stress is related specifically to his manager and will be resolved by having a different reporting line. Given that your friend thinks all the managers "stick together", is changing manager actually going to achieve anything or is your friend going to be in the same position again in 6 months time? The top manager needs to explore other options.

Yes,he is allowed a union rep with him. I had one at all my stress meetings with work

Yes he is allowed a union and rep and he needs to think of this meeting as an opportunity to express what he needs to enable him to return to work. It's better to phrase it as "I need a line manager that I have effective working relations with" rather than "I want a new line manager as this one has bullied me".

Your friend should be able to decide whether they meet at home, work or another venue and write a list of things that he wants to discuss beforehand etc.

However stressful it is, he does need to maintain a dialogue with his workplace, and also check the sick pay policy - some organisations do have a policy about withdrawing sick pay if employees aren't co-operating with attempts to support them back to work.

What annh said.

Also, why do people think he's entitled to take a union rep with him to a meeting with the top manager? He's not. He can to the grievance hearing but that's not what this is. He can certainly ask if he can bring a rep, but if they refuse that's fine.

OP if your friend is concerned this top manager won't listen and will refuse his request, does he think the manager is more likely to listen and grant the request if he doesn't meet with him?

He doesn't have to agree as I said, but if he wants to complain later about not being listened to, the employer will just point to the fact that they offered a meeting to discuss and he refused.

It's a "welfare meeting" in the context in which there has been explicit reference to his sick pay being cut. I think he's entitled to have a union rep there if he wishes?

OK, well I'm not sure what you're basing that on christina, because the law's pretty clear in this area, but I'm sure the OP has looked at the disclaimer at the top of the page, and it's pretty easy to check to which hearings an employee is entitled to bring someone.

OP I do suggest your friend asks to bring a union rep, and although the meeting is to discuss his potential return to work and a request he has made to change line manager, in a situation where there is an allegation of bullying and a formal grievance in the pipeline, it would be sensible of the employer to agree.

Either way, if your friend attends the meeting, and feels the discussion is going in a direction he feels is inappropriate, or would be better suited to the formal grievance hearing that he'll be having anyway, then he should stop it at that point - he doesn't want it to turn into an effective grievance hearing for which neither he nor the manager are appropriately prepared.