What to do?????

[Xroads]

I'll try and keep this brief.

I'm 31, my children are 7yrs and 13yrs, married to dh off 11yrs, very happy so far so good.

I've been childminding since I was 24yrs and in short I want out, I work 730am-6pm 3 days and before and after school 1 day. The business is successful and I have had all of my mindee's for over a year now. The thing is I'm not challenged by it, I want to spend more time being creative and now my dc's are older I would like to get rid of the highchairs, car seats, pushchairs, cots that are around the house. BUT We are 16mths away from being debt free for the first time in about 10yrs. We do not own a house which dh would like to do at some point. We have no savings.

I volunteer as part of our towns festival of arts which doesn't use up that much time tbh (maybe 4 evening meetings, 3 afternoons and a morning of time per year)

I'm in the process of trying to set up a business painting murals but I was also a florist pre children and come from a family of florists and they can all paint murals too. I'm considering a business where I could work from home, do special occasion flowers e.g funerals and weddings, possibly do event planning (as I'm organised and good at planning etc) but also still make time to paint the odd mural.

What would your next steps be?

Cheapest I can get is 5k per year and I could get a shop for that, I'm now thinking as long as it's a cheap shop and I work hours to suit me (obviously different at busy times of the year like valentines, christmas and mothers day but I don't mind doing stupidly long hours on the odd occasion especially if the longer I'm there the more I earn)

It may not be 15 people every week but I think there's a good chance it could build up to that, I s'pose it's a bit like toddler groups in a way, people do go week in and week out because it's cheap, it's warm, it's somewhere to socialise with people who are in the same boat as you and theres a nice cuppa and some biscuits.

I think you're obviously very talented and creative and you're brimming with ideas but you're a teeny bit unfocused. Which is fine, the brainstorming stage is where you are allowed to be unfocused . A pp said, work out how much you need to earn a month, then work out how much you need to earn an hour to cover that. Include tax and NI in that calculation (add 25% as a rough guide just now).

So if I want to earn £100 in 4 hours, I need to earn £25 ph plus tax and NI, so actually I need to earn £30 an hour to make £100.

Then you have to put all your costs on the other side - if you have a shop, how much will that cost you ph (or pd if it makes things easier), what about light, heat, stock, extra rent, whatever.

Then look at the two hourly rates together. If it is going to cost you £30 in costs to earn your £25, then you haven't actually earned anything, have you? So you need to either reduce your costs (don't have a shop) or increase the amount per hour you can make. (If you still want to make £30 an hour profit you have to be able to charge £60 an hour).

Time to get the calculator out!

Good plan Wilson and thank you! I am useless at maths, I get by but it's far from my strong point!

I will sit and work it out

I do have a clever husband and a business advisor and an accountant so I'm hoping I won't go too wide off the mark before someone points out where I've gone wrong.

Yes very unfocused..........slowly getting there I think

Talk to your m&d about the "hidden costs" of the shop. Insurance? Security? Shop front etc. etc. I bet there are some "nasty" hidden extras. You are very lucky in that your family have a lifetime of experience in this field so suck all their info!

I admire your excitement and ambition about this, and it's great you have loads of plans and ideas whizzing around

But, I have been in that place, where the world is your oyster, you are just starting out in business and you are sure that all your ideas can work and will be successful! Then you sit down, work it out properly and think about how you are really going to achieve all that. And suddenly you realise that as Dolmites says, just because you are providing these services, it doesn't mean people will automatically come to them!

I honestly don't mean to dampen your spirit, I think it is definitely a positive that you are having such enthusiasm about the venture. Just keep it realistic, and remember your end goal - to make money and have a happy work/life balance.

Just a thought - would be there be any other local business suitable to share a premises with you? Someone linked to your area of work, but not a competitor, maybe a wedding planner, or events coordinator or something? If you can reduce costs and help each other gain business maybe that's an idea? (Please ignore me if that's a stupid suggestion )

Yes I'm asking lots of questions to anyone who will listen

Sharing a shop could work, I was offered a rental with a beauty therapist today but I turned it down because although it was £200 a month it would be me having a part of her shop rather than a joint business, I'm also not keen on the area she's setting her shop up in plus she's doing it now and I can't do it until at least may next year.

Don't worry about dampening my spirit I'm thick skinned

I took an arrangement to a hair salon today and she loved it so much she's taking it home so has asked for another one and she has said I can bring in some bridal examples to display my work...........If I could do that with most salons, wedding places then who knows.................

Maybe another opportunity of sharing a premises will arise - or you could seek out somebody yourself. Then if your business takes off, you could always get somewhere on your own at a later date.
I agree that you need to be happy it is in a suitable location etc though.

That's really promising from the hair salon, You are good at thinking outside the box. At this rate you will be in a great position to start in 16 months.

Thanks alwaysone, I really do want this to be successful, so many people say I have got talent (I always think they are just being polite) but maybe I should have a bit more self belief and confidence. Tonight I'm going to do a mural for a community centre, we are having a group brain storm (with teenagers) and then I'm going to draw a design on the wall, I'm a bit nervous incase they are for something really tricky or they think I'm rubbish but it's what I want so I've got to go for it and hope for the best!

Oh that sounds exciting! Have fun and good luck with the mural.

I got asked for dinosaurs but in the end we settled on the word diversity in 3d letters, a couple of doves, a few logos to represent lesbian, gay, bisexual and transexual's. I sketched it out and I'm going back in 2 weeks to paint it, they loved it

Today I'm doing contracts with 2 new childminding families so that will take me a step closer to being debt free by april 2014, I miscalculated when I started this thread, we actually only have 13 more debt repayments woohooo!

Today I'm leaning more towards renting a bigger house and working from home, that means giving up a secure tenancy though at the same time as giving up childminding so it would put a lot more pressure on me to make the new business work (if i had a shop and it went pear shaped I could just do it for 6mths) on the one hand it would be great for dc's to still have me at home on the other I wouldn't feel I could come home from work and relax (part of the reasons I want to quit cm) but dd1 could have a room bigger than a box room and be closer to school and all her friends currently we are 3 miles away and she doesn't get to see her friends as much as she would like and by then she would be about 15....plus its nearer to college and town.......

Anyone had any experience of running a shop and working from home and found which was better and why?

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What would you do if your business didn't work?

It's all good and well taking "risks" if your husband is an investment banker or you're young, free and single but I think you need to keep your feet on the ground.

It seems to me you're taking a scatter gun approach to this and firing off business ideas in all directions AND wanting a bigger house - is that what you want long term and calling it a business premises just puts the chicken before the egg?

I think you need to have a serious think about what you really want to and how you're going to leverage that to make a profit.

Right now you're spending your profits before you've earned them and as you know that results in years of paying them off!

This is why I'm asking for advice, from people who have been there and done it, I am researching and thinking, I've got a business advisor and my husband keeps my feet firmly on the ground

I'm exploring all options.

If my business failed I'd do something else, I would work all hours to ensure that didn't happen though tbh.

It will be a family business, my husband is very supportive, he has offered to work in the shop at weekends and do delivers for me, our two girls would help too, dd1 will help me after school and weekends sometimes (I won't expect it all the time because she will be doing her GCSE'S and have a social life no doubt) dd2 will only be about 9yrs but if I was to pick which child would want to "help" run the business later on it would be dd2 she takes after me in many ways (though is a bit brighter as she gets that from DH )

My aunt has offered to be my mentor and I'm going to stay with her again in the summer.

I know it will be hard, I know it's going to be a hard slog but that's life when you aren't qualified in many things and had a baby at 17 I guess........... I am actually hoping by 40 I'll be living a bit of an easier life, with an established business in a job I love and have flair for or who knows in 10 yrs I could sell up make a few quid and go and live somewhere over looking a stunning view while I paint for a living (now i really am dreaming!)

I think that you are a bit 'stuck' on having a shop or premises. And despite the helpful suggestions that many posters have made, you keep coming back to that idea (and trying to find different ways to make it work). I can understand that you are excited about it, but I don't see (from your posts) that there is much substance behind it that would make it workable. If I were your business advisor, I'd say "don't invest in premises until you have an established trade" and even then think about it again. And then again.

fwiw, here is my business advice.

1. work hard over the next year with your childminding business to get debt free.
2. continue with your childminding business for another year to build up some money to invest in your new business. (you spoke in an earlier post about not making any profit for 2 years, but how are you going to manage month to month without any income? given that you currently have debt so I assume that your dh is not in a massively high paying role?)
3. while doing 1 and 2 above start to build up your new businesses e.g. making christmas wreaths, painting murals. This will establish your credibility, give you a portfolio, and will also let you explore the market for what you are trying to sell.
4. for each aspect of your business (flowers and painting) develop a business plan which is based on NOT having premises e.g. using other people's shops to display your floral arrangements, using a small area in their shop to create your arrangements, using your community murals as an advertising workspace, painting 'advertising' murals in shops where your target market go e.g. in a shop selling prams or baby equipment.
5. once your business(es) have started bringing in a regular income then stop child-minding.
6. once your business(es) have achieved a decent turnover consider expanding into a shop.

I hope you don't feel like I'm pouring cold water on your plans, normally I am an enthusiastic supporter and encourager, but I don't see that you are in a position where you should risk a secure tenancy for something that is not based in sound business and commercial reality. Hard work and enthusiasm are important, but working all the hours you can (and your family too) will not be enough if your ideas are not commercially viable.

Alternatively, if your priority is to move quickly to somewhere closer to your dd1's school, then why not transfer your established childminding business to your new house? And then gradually build up your new successful business.

Thanks greatwork for taking the time to write a reply to me.

In response to your points

1. work hard over the next year with your childminding business to get debt free.

I fully intend to, it'll probably be 18mths.

2. continue with your childminding business for another year to build up some money to invest in your new business. (you spoke in an earlier post about not making any profit for 2 years, but how are you going to manage month to month without any income? given that you currently have debt so I assume that your dh is not in a massively high paying role?)

My DH is currently looking for a better paid job, he's in the IT industry and has worked his way up in the same company for almost 10yrs, unfortunately they can't pay him a massive salary because they have been in diffculty themselves so the company has just been taken over.......maybe he should stay and see if they give him a pay rise, maybe he should just jump ship......
Month to month we won't have any debts by then and will have some savings and I'm sure I'll make some money now and again I hope
We have debt because we got together at 19 and have 2 children, 2 cars (both needed for our jobs e.g. I do 2 school runs within 20 mins of each other, he works in the middle of nowhere 20 miles away) things break, it's manageable debt paid by direct debits.

3. while doing 1 and 2 above start to build up your new businesses e.g. making christmas wreaths, painting murals. This will establish your credibility, give you a portfolio, and will also let you explore the market for what you are trying to sell.

I have been doing this, before christmas I sold £900 worth of christmas flowers but this is when I realised my house wasn't big enough for me to run a flower business from.

4. for each aspect of your business (flowers and painting) develop a business plan which is based on NOT having premises e.g. using other people's shops to display your floral arrangements, using a small area in their shop to create your arrangements, using your community murals as an advertising workspace, painting 'advertising' murals in shops where your target market go e.g. in a shop selling prams or baby equipment.

I currently have my paintings in a florist shop, my flowers on display in a hairdressers, I have a folksy shop, a facebook page and word of mouth so I'm starting to do that.

Over the past 2 years I have painted murals for soft play places, a school and a nursery whilst still working full time and a community centre. It's been pretty exhausting. (this is how I came to the conclusion there just isn't the money in murals that I was hoping for)

5. once your business(es) have started bringing in a regular income then stop child-minding.

I am kind of in a catch 22, I need to cm until my debts are paid, I need to build up my flowers/ art business but there are only so many hours in the day, I need more hours to show what I can really do.

6. once your business(es) have achieved a decent turnover consider expanding into a shop.

Until I have the space and time I'm really limited with what I can offer. In july til fb I will have a decent amount of space to work from for free thanks to my mum, unfortunately time will still be an issue as I will be cm 44 to 50 hours per week still.......

If space is the big issue, how about looking for storage solutions that aren't necessarily a shop - e.g. renting a garage, small industrial unit etc.? Much cheaper than a retail unit.

It would allow you to continue with child minding etc. in the daytime and work on your business in the evenings. I do really appreciate what you're saying about how tight you are for time when you are childminding so many hours a week, but I guess it would be good to have the 'safety' of that income while you continue to build up the business.

I've thought about that and last year I did rent a studio for 6 months but I gave it up because I couldn't have 24hr access so I wasn't using it enough to make it worth the money, I now keep some stuff at my dads in his garage but it isn't big enough with all his stuff in there as well to make it into a workable space, if my mum could have afforded to lend me her garage and conservatory on a long term basis that would have been ideal but unfortunately she isn't in a position to do that, I'm lucky she has offered to lend it to me for 6 months really.

Who knows by feb 2014, dh could have a new job, we could have saved up some money, paid the debts off early and be in a position to move house or rent somewhere for me to work from.....

My business advisor has sent me a sheet about working from home so I'm going to sit and read through that on Saturday and see what conclusions I draw.

Hello again,

just thought I'd add an update:

I've been working my socks off, I'm trying to get new customers for my cm business in order to pay debts off/ save up faster.

DH has a job interview on Friday so fingers crossed for that (he's got to deliver a 20 min presentation about how their business can go from good to great so any words of wisdom on that would be fab...)

I've been networking to try and make more business contacts/ customers

I've been practicing and the last arrangement I did I put it on my fb page and I've had 3 orders so that's good.

I'm also working on the website and in the next few months I hope to gain a few contracts with funeral parlors.

Next week I have about 10 hours to do with the festival of arts over 3 days (sun, mon and fri), I'm working cm on tue, mon am I'm going to the wholesalers to buy more stock to make arrangements people have requested, wed I am meeting my business advisor to discuss my business plan and later on I'm painting a mural for the community centre, thu I have a business planning and finance course so it's all going in the right direction I hope.........

Baby steps...