Thinking of retraining in accountancy...any accountants about?

[HauntedLittleLunatic]

I have a degree in an unrelated subject.

I have looked briefly at the ACCA and ACA websites, and think I understand the academic side of it although am unclear on the time commitment for studying. I am, however, a very academic person with exams being my strong point (over essays and coutsework)

I.am good with a calculator (though only just about average with mental arithmetic). I am good with IT, including exel although have no experience with accounts specific software such as SAGE. I am very analytical and logical.

my weaknesses...I'm not really a people person, and I'm not great with words. My current knowledge of economic awareness is weak, mainly through lack of active interest and could be rectified.

I am aware that there are different types of accountancy, but not clear of the functions on some of them. A summary would be good.

Am I right in thinking that this would be a office hours job (bar studying)?.

How would I go about getting a training place. I can see some advertised on ACA. Is it worth approaching the smaller firms in.my area, or would that be restricting in terms of breadth of experience?

I did my AAT through my job with an accountant and have been qualified for several years now. It is a double sided qualification in that it gives you an NVQ4 which is equivalent to the first year study of a degree and it also entitles you to become a member of the AAT. I have been qualified for around 10 years, with 20 years experience in an Accountancy practice.

In April 2011 I went self employed. The AAT membership gives me cheap insurance and reassures clients that I am qualified. Even if you dont keep your membership of the AAT up, you will still have the NVQ4

I undertake bookkeeping, VAT, Payroll, Accounts and Tax Returns and I do some work in clients offices and some at home. | can use the letters FMAAT after my name for business purposes.

I never undertook any further qualifications as I did not have the time. All the younger kids in the office worked their way through them, but approaching 40 with a 4yo DD meant that I did not have the time or the inclination. Obviously the more qualifications you take, the higher up the ladder you can go.

The job can be 9-5, however the firm that I worked for liked their pound of flesh and staff regularly worked 12 hour days or longer.

I think that would be a good approach.
Not sure about availability of work...
I work for a really big company... we sponsor some ( 3?) people per annum to study CIMA, but quite a few of our purchase ledger team are studying AAT with assistance... so in our case there are more jobs, ( although not as well paid as the ones for CIMA students)

Work in practise and there is no difference in pay between ACCA and ACA qualifieds or trainees. Also, ACCA qualifieds can be auditors too. Once you're two or three years post qualification, nobody really cares what you studied, as long as you're qualified!

I found the same thing with people who had business degrees or such like. They really struggled with the basic accounting techniques.

If you have a degree in accountancy that is different but if not I really recommend AAT in spite of what some others are saying. I work for the public sector and all the available jobs we have are either £55k plus or for the other end for AAT qualified wanting to do a professional qualification (which we fund).

I never worked more than 9-5 at AAT level!

Right I think I have a plan.

Looked at job centre and they all seem to want experience and/or at least part trained AAT.

AAT via college/classroom looks as though it will take 3yrs (1yr per module).

So I am looking into doing level 2 and 3 via self study/distance learning and giving myself 6-9m to do both. Hopefully I will then be able to get a job as a part trained AAT, complete level 4 via classroom study either as supported day release or evening college.

In the next 2-3 years I will work as an AAT, find the man of my dreams, no longer be a single parent and have the flexibility to do one of the professional qualifications

That sounds like a really good plan.

Good luck with everything!!

Good Luck. I did AAT through my employment and it was a very good grounding. Although I had been doing accounts to Trial Balance for a couple of years, it was all done on the computer and I had no technical knowledge. I went straight in to year 2 (level 3) due to my experience, but wished I hadnt afterwards as they were all talking about "T-accounts" and I had absolutely no idea what they were talking about!

AAt is the first qualification my that my old employers (massive firm in this area) put their staff through. They see it as an essential first part of learning. They pay a reduced salary while they are paying for the training and allowing time off work for college and exams.

With AAT you can work in private sector, general practice, anywhere you like really.

Good Luck :-)

Just another one to say that AAT is well worth it. In my experience AAT is the most flexible at allowing you to work/study at the same time. It gives you a good grounding in all aspects of accountancy and has served me well for years. Some acocuntants in industry I've known over the years have Chartered status but no clue how to complete a Company Annual Return or process a payroll

Do you know what...I think o have a 5yr plan for the first time in my life :)

It feels good doesn't it Haunted? I'm on year one of my first ever 5 year plan too in fact my first plan of any length

I was in this exact position 9 months ago.

Like you, I have an unrelated degree and consider myself to be academically minded. I hope my experience helps you in your decision. I didn't initially consider AAT as my degree allowed me direct entry to studying ACCA.

I chose to study ACCA as I wanted to self study whilst remaining in my current job (non accountancy so any studies are self funded). I sat F1 and passed with a high mark but having absolutely no accounting experience I felt that there were parts of F2 and F3 which assumed a certain level of knowledge which I did not have (it's not particularly difficult stuff but does need prior knowledge of some basics to fully understand). I was also pregnant by this point and AAT was recommended to me. I liked the more 'bite size' exam structure of AAT as it suited me whilst running after a small toddler and preparing for a new baby (plus the BPP AAT text books are A5 sized so you can read whilst rocking/feeding baby!). I received my final AAT exam result this week and I have completed levels 3 and 4 in about 6 months (would have been quicker but I had a baby in the middle of it!). I studied level 2 to learn the basics but didn't bother with the exams as it was money I didn't feel I needed to spend. I self studied by just buying the study text and then booking the exams as an external candidate (this saved me 100's of £'s and I never felt the need for any extra support). I could now claim exemptions from F2 and F3 of ACCA, but I have chosen to sit them anyway, almost as a revision exercise. I passed F3 last week with 90% and am sitting F2 on Tuesday. F6 is booked for December (the syllabus is mostly covered if you choose the 2 optional tax modules of AAT).

My point is this, yes it may have cost me a little more to study AAT, and I may have found it very straightforward, but I now have a full technician qualification and I feel it has more than prepared me for ACCA. I do think that AAT has prepared me for the next levels of ACCA more than F1, F2 and F3 would have. If you are academically minded, there is no reason that you couldn't complete AAT in a similar time frame to F1, F2 and F3, and you would have a more solid foundation for your further studies (there are one or two very small areas in the F1-F3 syllabus not covered by AAT but nothing you couldn't cover when it may or may not be required later). I think AAT covers the same areas but is more geared to someone who has no accounting experience so covers the basics in more detail). Like a previous poster has also touched upon, some chartered students lack basic double entry knowledge - I have been told several times that students with an AAT background are usually much better equipped in this area than students who go straight to the chartered qualification.

I have really enjoyed my studies so far and plan to continue the next stage of ACCA by just buying the study texts and self studying (until I need extra help anyway!) I plan to look for trainee accountant roles when my maternity leave finishes. How successful this is will determine whether or not I have been wasting my time!

I did so much research into the options available to me, so feel free to PM me if you think I may be able to answer any queries.

Nps that post is wonderful!

Can I clarify - did you do level 3 and 4 6m total or 6m each?

I am unsure what route to take. Self study or distance learning. I understand what you are saying about the costs though and I guess distance learning is the same with a tutor to tell you what to do when. I guess that if I start with self study and struggle I can always subscribe to distance learning for extra support.

Finally - how did you find the level 4? That was the one that I was concerned about completing with self study. I was planning to do that as a classroom based learning but I guess I will make that decision when I see how the other levels go.

Finally finally, I think there was one part of (I think) level 3 which is computer based accounting. Do you need any specialised software for that?

6 months in total. You could potentially do it in even less as a I had some time off in the middle to have my second baby. I started with absolutely zero accounting knowledge. I really enjoyed it though and am very motivated as I really want this career change and am 36 so feel I don't have time to hang around.

To be honest I found most of it very easy but from reading forums, I know lots of people do struggle with it. Level 3 has a spreadsheets exam and all the distance learning providers told me I had to do a £200 course in order to sit the exam. I consider myself to be an advanced excel user so was a little unhappy at paying that to learn basic excel. I ended up calling my local Kaplan centre direct and they were happy for me to sit just the exam despite their main centre telling me it was impossible to do. However from reading the AAT forums, I seem to be the only person who has ever got away with it! I assume I was just lucky with whoever answered the phone that day. Level 4 has a project which you do need a provider for. I paid just over £200 with Kaplan to do it as they were the cheapest. I found this to be the worst bit as I gained nothing from it and just seemed to be a paper exercise with very little explanation (but a great money spinner for the learning providers!) I think they would be far better just setting an exam to test the knowledge. Level 4 is definitely a step up from level 3 but I still found it fairly straightforward. Basically if you are considering a chartered qualification then you shouldn't have anything to worry about with level 4. I used the BPP text books but Osborne and Kaplan texts are also very good.

I would try self studying first as the AAT website has practice assessments are very like the real exam so you will get a good feel for whether or not you are fully prepared. Also, you may find classroom based study too slow as they tend to spread it out over 2-3 years. I spent about £60-£80 per module and that included the study text, a question bank and the exam. Amazon also buy the books back off you when you have finished so a lot of my level 4 books were paid for by returning my level 2&3 books. I dread to think what distance learning or classroom sessions would have cost.

For me, the advantage to being AAT qualified, is that I hope it gives me more flexibility when I start job hunting. I am well aware that without practical experience I am going to find it difficult to get a trainee accountant role, so hopefully AAT will help me find a lower level role to gain experience, which together with a large proportion of the ACCA exams under my belt (hopefully) will then lead to a trainee role.

The criticisms of chartered accountants above are absolutely justified (and I am one and teach for the qualification ). If you want to be an accountant that can DO all the day to day financial or management accounting then AAT or ACCA may well be more useful.

Broadly speaking I do think ACA opens up more career choice but if you already know what kind of work you want to do then that's not really the most important consideration.

Studying without attending courses is obviously cheaper but don't underestimate the workload. I have seen good graduates in academic subjects struggling with accounting at first - it can be like a new language that takes a while to click, so please don't put pressure on yourself to be able to whizz through it. Maybe you will, but don't give up if you do.

Many of the best people I've worked with are self-confessed slow starters when it came to the exams!

Oh, and I think doing AAT is a sensible starting point as a self-funded trainee as it's a realistic target but still gives you that path into ACA or ACCA after.

If you want to ask anything about training feel free to PM me.

nps (or others).

I've been pondering what you said about skipping level 2...I assume that it is successful completion of level 4 (+1 years experience?) Which gives you AAT status. So in theory, if I study level 2 as you did, but skip the exams to save some money I could start my exams at level 3? The AAT website seems to imply that. I did the self check on there and that suggested starting at level 2, although that seemed to be down to a lack of basic double entry knowledge (not surprising as I've never studied it).

I assume that level 3 and 4 build on the level 2 knowledge so it would therefore be indirectly assessed at the later stages. I guess what I'm wondering is whether employers will see the lack of a level 2 certificate as a negative or potential gap (i would hope for the opposite...it being a reflection of confidence and natural ability).

I should say I would obviously make sure I was confident of my own ability using the past papers on the aat website before progressing to level3 and sitting any of those exams.

I should also say I am minorly annoyed that each module is a new book(s)...just to add to the cost...

HauntedLittleLunatic,

Yes, I don't think level 2 is an issue once you have 3 and 4 (as far as I can tell, you can't do 4 without 3 though). I was exactly the same as you, no idea about double entry (had never even heard of it) but once you get the basics by reading the level 2 text books (and doing lots of practice as it seemed like a foreign language to me to begin with) you'll breathe through the online assessment test. Levels 3 and 4 build on the level 2 knowledge so passing those definitely prove you could have passed level 2 if you wanted to. Really ensure you know the basic double entry technique as it will help you enormously as you progress.

Another thing I wish I'd known......you can do level's 3 and 4 at the same time as you tend to find each level 4 exam follows on directly from a level 3 exam and some stuff is even repeated. Studying them straight after each other means you save time as you are not having to go through stuff again. You'll also find that some modules in each level seem to fit together so best studied together. If you go down that route, I can tell you which order I would do all the modules in if I was to start again.

Also, if you plan to go onto ACCA, I would recommend doing the two tax options in level 4 as you are then nicely set up to take F6 in ACCA. Again there is a lot of repetition between the two so best studied straight after each other.

Finally......as an external student, Kaplan add an extra admin fee if you take the exams at their centres. BPP just charge the exam fee. Unfortunately I only found this out during Level 4 so I wasted over £100 in admin fees.

I qualified as an ACCA - because of the nature of my work and wanting to be part time I'm now with ICPA.

AAT is a really good start.
Its well regarded both in industry and in practice so you can then decide what to do next.
ACA is pretty much exclusively through the firms.
CIPFA is useful for those who want to stay in the public sector forever
CIMA is useful for those who want to go into industry
but ACCA and ACA are the versatile ones.

Thanks nps. I'll have a think about the module order thing. I get what you are saying about saving time and duplication. I guess I was/am hoping to get level 3 out of the way so I get a certificate and can start working whilst completing level 4...I shall have a ponder...

Oh, and the AAT forums are brilliant if you are struggling with anything. Queries are answered within hours if not minutes, and quite often by qualified accountants or tutors. So even if you self study you are far from alone if you get stuck with anything.

FCA here (that's a very old ACA!)

Not sure I can really help, but I wish you all the very best.

It's a very flexible qualification and has served me very well for over 20 years.

:-)
I was FCCA before I left
(for those not in the know, they turn your A into an F ten years after you qualify)

I would highly recommend BPP, they are really good and you only need to attend college for a few days.

I recently qualified after a 7 year break of exams with the kids so just had one exam to take. I only went for 3 days at BPP and although I did study after the study days there I reckon they gave us enough info to pass the final exam (TOPCIMA) without extra work!

I am an ACA. I did my undergrad in history and then did a 3 year training contract with a Big 6 firm (as there were at the time- now Big 4). I worked in audit during my contract, then worked for two multinationals in management accounting/business analysis and forecasting roles and then as a buy side equity research analyst. Post kids I now work for a charitable foundation doing financial due diligence for large grants, so it's a qualification that's served me really well.

What you do really depends on what you're aspiring to. Are you aiming for a fairly run of the mill finance role (a "doing" job- entries into general ledger/account preparation) or more of a managerial (financial controller), analytical (business/financial analyst) or strategic role (Finance director). If the latter, and you are an academically capable person, then ideally you would shoot straight for ACA or CIMA.

For ACA you'd need to get a training contract within a firm of accountants. For CIMA you usually do the exams whilst working in a finance department of a company and you work your way up as you progress through the exams. I have a friend who started in a government agency as a graduate trainee doing CIMA and is now CFO of that same department.

I actually think CIMA might suit you best. ACA is more prestigious, but unless you want to do audit (and if you're not a people person you probably dont because audit is very stressful- you're dealing with your client when they're at their busiest and most stressed and giving them shit they really dont need . It's a difficult relationship. When I've recruited for management accounting/forecast/analysis roles I've viewed ACA and CIMA as broadly comparable.

I cant comment on CIMA/ACCA as haven't done them, but ACA exams were tough- far tougher than my Cambridge finals and a lot of the "pass factor" is question practice so there's no way of getting around the graft. It is a massive commitment in terms of evening and weekend study. How old are your kids? Are they at an age where they can entertain themselves for a morning so you can work at the weekends, or do they go to their father's so you get study time?

Where are you in the country?

Are you willing to work evenings?

You could try training with the nao to get the ACA - entering as a graduate trainee.