suspended from work :( epic post

[veryverypissedoffcarer]

Have NC for this. DH was suspended from work last Monday pending investigation of an alleged incident on the Sunday night (night shift worker in nursing home). He's alleged to have roughly handled a resident and been verbally abusive towards the resident. According to DH, he was assisting another carer with personal care of the resident and was being hit and scratched by the resident. He kept on telling the resident to stop hitting him while he was supporting her weight as she was on her side. The resident continued to scratch and hit him until he finally raised his voice and told her to stop. They finished working with the resident, got her resettled back into bed and left the room.

The other carer at no time raised any concerns about the way he had spoken to the resident nor did she say anything to him about the way he was handling the resident. Just to clarify, all care was done according to the care plan for the resident, correct equipment used etc. During the course of the shift both the other carer (A) and the nurse in charge (B) slept for approx 2-3 hrs leaving DH as the only carer awake to care for 24 residents. DH kept on waking them to help as he did not feel that the environment was safe. He finally wrote a note fao the manager and left it in the managers office stating that he wanted to speak to the manager as he was concerned about practices during the shift. (This is a new manager who started maybe 2 months ago)

He then finished the shift with no comment from A or B and B even told him and A to go into the resident in the morning. DH lifted the note from the mangers office on his way home as he felt that he should speak to the manager in person when they came on duty. Shift finished at 8am, gave A lift home, dropped DD at school then went in to speak to the manager at just after 9am. Manager said he couldn't speak to him at that time as he was heading to a meeting with some other managers (DH had seen them heading in) and he would talk to him after the meeting. DH mentioned to the manager that it was urgent and regarding safe practice. Told that the manager would ring so came home and went for a sleep. (DH had just done 3 shifts in a row).

DH then got a phone call in the afternoon asking him to go in to speak with manager. DH phoned me in a state after he came out of the building to say that A&B had made the allegations and he was suspended with full pay immediately (he was due to go in for a shift that night). No statement was taken from him that day and he has heard nothing from the home re. making a statement etc. DH contacted union rep and had been told to wait until he heard from the home.

We have waited for a full week with no contact. DH rang the manager this morning to ask if there was any progress or any idea of timescale so that we could get organised re childcare as I am due to go into hospital for surgery and have been told to expect a 6 wk recovery time. Friends are offering us help but we can't respond past the 1st few days post discharge since we don't know if DH will be back at work or not IYSWIM. Manager was very evasive and told DH that "with his track record he would have dismissed him after the 1st time".

DH is and as the manager is referring to an investigation where DH was basically hung out to dry regarding a moving and handling issue where a resident was injured and he was the only member of staff left to reprimand as by the time the investigation happened, the 2 other staff involved had left the job. However, the investigation found him to not be at fault as it was a training issue (no one had been given the correct training) which was to be rectified by all staff being verbally warned and retrained. This was last year and under the previous manager. None of the recommendations were followed and to this day no one has been retrained. Luckily the union rep he has was involved in the previous investigation so has knowledge of what had happened.

DH feels that he is being victimised because he is doing everything by the book instead of covering for other people ie sleeping on duty, unfinished paperwork. There are only 2 male carers and he has noticed that some of the staff treat him differently if he stands his ground. For example, if he goes in at 7:30 pm (handover doesn't start until 7:45) and refuses do do the tea trolley because A) he's not on duty and B) it's the day shifts duty then there's a lot of muttering behind his back. He raised several issues during a staff meeting including day staff leaving early and starting late. One day the whole of day shift excl the nurse in charge left at 7:30 pm when DH and another carer came in. They went to get changed and came down to find that the floor was abandoned and buzzers going unanswered. One other day DH wasn't home until 8:40 am (workplace is 10 mins away) because day shift didn't come in until 8:15 and night shift couldn't leave until there were enough people to safely leave. He says that he noticed a change in staff attitudes after that staff meeting (1st staff meeting for new manager) but it has been so subtle that he felt that saying anything would seem petty. He's such a shy quiet person and hates any sort of confrontation that it puts him at a disadvantage.

Epic post I know but we would appreciate any sort of information about how to go about dealing with this. The union are being helpful but I need to feel like we have some sort of clear picture as to what to expect or what we should do or say. Also posted in legal

Troll, should he have left the resident to lie in urine while he tried to get the nurse in charge to come and help the other carer? Because if he had done so it would have been at least 30 mins as she was with another resident.

Alemci - I'm fully aware of what an RN is. She should/would know that residents in care homes are not there by choice. They have issues and are some of the most vulnerable people in society.

I cannot agree with your comments that care workers are only human and therefore it is ok to raise your voice to a resident.

OPs DH is clearly not up to the job if he cannot carry out his role without raising his voice.

I ask you again if you think it is ok for, say a teacher, to retaliate if a child was punching/kicking them? After all the teacher is only human

OP - after your firt post I gave you my views on how the situation is likely to be percieved by others. Your subsequent posts make me think that your dh has cocked up massively and is now trying to squirm his way out of it by bringing in all these other incidents. The fact that you believe the resident deserved to be shouted at makes me think you are not thinking straight.

Thetroll was right - your posts read as if your DH dislikes confrontation except when he is confronting those weaker than himself.

X-post - again OP you are making excuses and trying to justify his actions after the event.

If he has 20 years of excellent service why did he treat a resident in such a way that a colleague immediatley raised it as an issue with management?

Tell yourselves all you want that he is in the right, but I wouldn't bank on him having a job to go back to.

Where exactly did I ever say that the resident deserved to be shouted at??

If the attack where that sustained and viciouse then yes, but I suspect if your husband has being this for 20 years with comendation he would have aquired the skills that would enable him to fully understand proccdure and be able to get on with the task without sustaining much injury, which makes me think he just lost his temper and esculated the situation. After years if your Dh is unable to judge a situation well then If i where him, i would be seriously questioning my judgement and abilty to do my job any loner.

It is a thankless industry some times, laced with stress and bad practice, but he should be able to challenge it and after 20 years if he is not confident to challenging or know the appropriate proccedures to report bad practice he needs to reconsider his commitment. He should have wistle blowed long before now.

just because someone is aware does not make what happened all thier fault, if your DH who is being paid to be thier cant control his temper, how can yopu expect someone who has to be thier day and night with no choice, having his basic needs taken care of and stripped of all dignity by these morrons accept the poor practice without snapping. Like i said this patient does not have a voice or a union on thier side, he has no choice but to sustain the routine disrespect.

I manage a nursing home. I assume your DH has read/has a copy of the disciplinary policy and procedure? Normally this means that the Registered Manager has to give the employee written notice of the allegations about them as soon as is possible, I always aim for 7 days. Then a time scale of the investigation and a date for the disciplinary hearing.

You can usually take a union rep or a work colleague in to the hearing.
If I was your DH I would admit raising my voice, being stressed, and I think at worst he would get a verbal warning. I would want to see evidence of more understanding of challenging behaviours and recognising own stress levels to ensure this wouldn't be repeated.

As a manager the residents are my priority but that doesn't mean I don't have a duty of care to my staff too and to support them if they are stressed and struggling with difficult/challenging residents.

Sounds like there are many problems at this home though.

Ok maybe that was badly worded, but you are spewing mitigation in all of your posts but none of it actually is mitigation for the incident which has caused him to be suspended.

My advice still stands by the way, call the union/acas.

Whatever you do, don't let him try to justify his actions with talk of low staff morale/other workers sleeping/management problems/20 years commendable service.

It will not get him anywhere and may even get right up the noses of the investigating personnel as it has done mine and at least one other persons on this thread

I too am bowing out now.

It is a thankless job that's for sure. Issues have been raised several times with previous management with little improvement. I personally feel that the whole work environment of the care homes in the local area (and I have worked as agency staff in most of them) is very strongly influenced by the local area. It's a small group of towns where everybody knows each other and it sometimes seems like things happen as a result of these connections. For example I got a post as a carer through one of my friends. When we left for different posts in different towns I could have told you what she was doing before she did. I come from a totally different background from DH and find this kind of environment very strange, but he grew up with it and doesn't find it odd..,,

again more rubbish OP. im now bailing this time for sure.

OP - stop kidding yourself that the home/resident/loacl area (wtaf) is in the wrong here.
I hate to be so blunt, but stop being thick. NONE OF IT MATTERS EXCEPT THE BEHAVIOUR OF YOUR DH TOWARDS THIS PARTICULAR RESIDENT AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME.

Miss Keith - you misunderstand me, i was asking what RN was, i am not sure and was wondering if you are health care professional as you seem very knowledgeable.

TBH i wouldn't blame a teacher if they shouted either if some child was punching or kicking them.

It sounds like OP's DH didn't have very supportive colleagues and the management were weak.

anyway lets hope it gets sorted out fairly.

Alemci - I have experience with HR in that I used to prep employers for tribunals.

I once had to prep a care home owner who sacked 3 staff on one morning. (She withheld their holiday pay/wages outstanding too). Two were shagging in a cupboard at the same time as a similiar incident as in the OP happened. All 3 initially applied for unfair dismissal hearings. Only the 1 actually went all the way to tribunal. The tribunal ruled that the employer was wrong to withold the wages but the employee was not reinstated (that was the aim). She tried to blame her failings on her colleagues. She was awarded her unpaid wages but nothing more.

ATM I am studying to become a social worker whilst still earning a living in the HR/Accountancy firm run by my family.

I have a sort of vested interest, as it were, in the OP. She really should listen to the advice given upthread.

ACAS will help her/her DH to understand the legalities. They will also act as mediator in the first instance. The union may also provide the same.

Retaliation is to react in a like for like manner - so a teacher shouting at a pupil who is punching or kicking them is not retaliation.

Retaliation in this situation would mean that the carer return the hitting & scratching he recived from the resident. Not on. Not in any situation, under any circumstances. Ever.

Oh, and apologies - an RN is simply a registered nurse.

My advice for DH (for what it's worth!)

Wait to see what the allegations are and what you need to respond to and respond only to this and no mudslinging against colleagues or employer. Keep your dignity and keep to the points raised. You will gain more respect.

Apologise if you are in the wrong for raising your voice. A raise voice is not good. Accept any sanctions (verbal warning? More training?). Know why this happened. If you were tired take some leave. Do not put yourself or the service users at risk like this again.

Realise DH that you have no real friends among your colleagues. You all sound knackered, scared and isolated in your work (I read no evidence in the post of team spirit in your workplace). I am sorry for this as it is your team that keeps you going through the exhaustion of shifts with difficult service users who need intensive care. You need a good team to work well in this type of work. Find one.

Do everything your Union advises as they are the experts and have trod this road before.

Get through this, see it as a test of your character if you like, and then get another job.

Learn from this. This is your second time in this situation. The way this care home runs does not suit you and will eventually drag you down.

thanks Miss Keith. Although the OP DH may have been wrong on a professional level, I felt sympathy for him given the situation.

Well done juggling work and study :)

I'm at your posts alemci. Thank god you don't work in health care.

I've have been kicked, punched, bitten etc by patients (medical ward) all elderly but not all have mental health issues. Yes, some are just not very nice people.

BUT you don't not shout at a patient/resident. Your not allowed to even do that with a relative, hence why we get verbally abused by them often. They know we are not allowed to retaliate.

OP your DH should have removed himself from the situation and filled out an incident form/report as to why he did that.

No one should have to be physically or verbally attacked in any profession.

It is better to leave the patient until they calm down, in a safe environment even if they still need changing. This is why notes and incident forms are there. For the managers to know/deal with the issue.

After 20 years of service, he should know this.

I don't and never would want to but I am just pointing out what a bum deal people who are health care workers get. I suppose OP's DH should have walked away but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Surely it is better to shout than to physically hit someone or do them harm. I am sure that is why old people do get abused in a subtle way as the carers get so frustrated in how they are treated by management and clients.

Are there no safeguards to make sure staff don't get injured. Why is it ok for the client to injure someone. If you were on the street and someone hurt you, they would be arrested for assault?

Well we are all supposed to be protected from physical and verbal abuse but how can you really be protected when you are employed to provide care for the person who is abusive. It's very tricky.

The only protection we have really is a right to walk away, as long as that personis in a safe environment and it is clearly documented why. That is the only way to protect yourself legally.

We have violence and aggression training every 1-2 year's which involves self defence (we are not mental health trained) and we are advised on how to try to diffuse situations but they all say the same thing.

If you are at risk of being injured, you take yourself out of the situation immediately.

But it is not ok that is the point that you are missing, there are safeguards but the dh chose to ignore them and not follow them, the safeguards are do not place your self or anyone at risk....walk away or follow appropriate care plan and restraint procedures.

It is not ok to shout because its better than hitting. You just don't be in that situation if you can't deal with it and if there are not appropriate care plan guidelines. Don't forget alemci he has been doing this job for 20 years and he knows that.

Hi I have a lot of sympathy for your dh. I have worked in care homes.

I should also tell you, I reported a colleague for mistreatment of a resident.

My advice would be - to think about the facts from that night from when he entered the room. Be honest, truthful and write them down.

Despite what anybody else was doing, what they should have been doing.

What did he do and what exactly did he say.

At the end of the day, they will have his word and his colleague (who was there)'s word and possibly the resident's word or their relative's word. And they will make a judgement on that. Despite what anybody else was doing or supposed to be doing at the time.

I worked in a nursing home. There were many abusive, physically aggressive residents. You expect it. You manage it. You don't rise to it.

It's hard if you are tired, overworked and your colleagues are not pulling their weight. But it's not really relevant.

My issue happened at the end of my 12 hour shift. The night worker coming on came in to help me get a resident to bed. I won't go into details - but what he did was disproportionate and wrong. He then left and went into an office for handover. I said nothing at the time because I was shattered, they were in handover, and in all honesty I didn't know what to make of it - I was confused. I am not suggesting this is anything to do with your dh's case - just so that you can see the process.

I asked to see manager the next day. She told me she was too busy. I asked to see her several times - she told me she was too busy. Eventually she said - just write me a note. So I did.

I got called to say that due to my serious accusations the employee was being immediately suspended pending an investigation. I felt sick with worry. I had to go in and make a written statement. I did so. Unbeknown to me the colleague had two previous warnings for similar things. He openly admitted what he'd done - he'd been doing it every night. He couldn't recall the incident being with me - because he did it every night. He was sacked. I was ostracised by the rest of the staff and there was some verbal abuse. I left shortly after.

I think what I'm trying to say if he sticks to the facts he should be ok. He should say, I felt stressed, overworked and I didn't handle it as I should have. I would resist from blaming other staff for sleeping. I doubt it will help. The fact is - you know the residents, you know what they're likely to do/say and you deal with it appropriately. For whatever reason he made a mistake that night. I think he'd be better off, if he is being truthful, just admitting it and saying he's learnt from it.

I hope he is being truthful with you but please remember it takes a hell of a lot of courage to report a colleague in that environment and the minute I did so, I knew my days were numbered there.

Wishing you the best. It's a very hard job with little or no thanks and I'm very glad I'm not in it any more.