Can I start my own business?

[IWishIWasSheRa]

I have an idea for an educational product (similar to kids jewellery), I can trademark the name but not eligible for patent, I can get the product made cheaply in china and package it from home in the uk. I think I can sell it- even based on a small initial order for a 70% profit.

However, if I order say 100 to be made without investing in trademark -just to test the water and approach distributors with a view to investing more in registering business etc would that be foolish? Should I set the company up, get my trademark to be taken seriously by potential buyers?

I just don't want to waste our money without knowing if the product is viable, nor do I want to waste the pitch opportunity by seeming unprofessional.

I'm also slightly scared that it 'll be labelled as a mummy business - you know the ones people slag off for being a hobby supported by the family breadwinner rather than a legitimate source of income?! I've been a sahm for 4 years and without sounding a prick- if I got a job to the best of my ability it wouldn't make a big impact on our income as my husband landed on his feet with his salary. But I will go demented if I don't work now.

This is rambly sorry, I hope it makes some sense and I would genuinely appreciate advice!!

Also, I've shown the designs to 5 teachers, all but 1 thought its was great and said it also had potential as a sen tool

How much is the trademark?

About £1500 and a further £500 to register business. I have no idea if I will need a lion mark to enable me to aim product at children or how to go about that.... I sound disorganised don't I?!

Drip drip sorry- I can get 100 samples made for £300

Would citizens advice be able to help point you towards right people at all?

It depends how much faith you really have in the product I guess.

Ullena- worth a try, I've had an informal chat with a solicitor but he was adamant that i shouldn't do anything without a trademark- but in reality a trademark offers little protection to an unknown brand without a patent.

Mammatj- I think it's great, not life changing but useful and I would definitely buy it if I saw it online or in a store.

How are you getting it from Factory in China to PORT, and from port to the UK?

Or is the product so small it can be posted?

It's small enough for the sample order to be posted so the factory said that the sample would avoid a customs charge.

Hmm i don't know much about this stuff but a trademark won't stop someone copying your product and selling it under a different brand. Also I would imagine it's very expensive to defend your trademark if someone did decide to steal it. I think you should do some research into whether you need a CE mark etc. Could you maybe do some focus groups to test the waters? Otherwise if you can afford to, I'd get the sample batch made and go from there.

Thanks pink fondant - you're right- i'll get the sample made and go from there.
Look out for me on the next google chrome advert!

You will probably need a kitemark if it's aimed at kids? That will cost, though I've no idea how much . To me it's the kitemark that would make it not be just another daft mummy product, IYSWIM.

Business link maybe able to help you. I have found them very useful and live their business plan template.

I second that ^^ Also maybe ask nursery managers if they need to consider kitemarks etc when buying for the nursery? And maybe buyers from toystores/baby product stores?

Wilson- your post struck a chord, :-) I will prioritise the kite mark over trademark if it will allow.

Lonecat- thanks, I'll have a look at it now

I think if it's anything for children it will need to undergo some sort of external testing which will be pricey. Make sure you factor that in.

setting up a business is relatively cheap (we started ours in April)
If you have a really good idea don't test the waters without a patent, wait and save till you can afford the patent or better still start your business (do you have any money you can put into it?) & take a directors loan to pay for the patent. The patent would be tax deductible and taken as part of your setting up costs.
Its worth speaking to an accountant, we wouldn't have managed to set up without ours. I think it cost £75 to set up as a ltd business. good luck

SEN stuff is kitemarked up the yingyang as well as a lot of DCs with SEN will mouth things for sensory reasons.

Good luck with it

Don't know if this is helpful or not, but I used to be a buyer at Mothercare/ELC and we wouldn't have even spoken with someone about their product unless they had all the relevant stuff in place such as patent/Trademark and in the case of toys, Lion mark/kite mark.
Also it would need to have been tested against every single vaguely relevant safety standard (for all countries it was likely to be sold in as the standards differ between countries/continents)
If you were lucky enough for your product to be looked at, the only way we would have considered buying it would be on a dropship basis - i.e. the product would only be sold via the website, not in any stores. We wouldn't commit to buying any stock to hold in the warehouse = (too much of a risk for a new product) and any orders placed via the website would be sent directly from you out to the customer.

Meant to add...good luck though, sounds interesting and hope you can create a business out of it!
secretly jealous as I want to set up my own business but don't have any money!

Hi there, we've moved this thread into Freelance/Self-Employed. Thanks.

The other thing to look out for, when having designs produced in China, is that very often they sell ideas and designs on, when they get their hands on them.

And before you know it, somebody with more capital, ability to move quickly, with the right contacts will be marketing "your" product.

You will look like you are second to the market.

If you could prove that you had the patent, trademark prior to sending the designs off for sample production, your position would be stronger.

Oh, you bad bad mumsnet. How can you just remove threads out of Aibu to somewhere more suitable, on a whim!

Thank you all so much for your advice- sorry for late reply I just found the thread again!

I have spoken to UCAS, BSI & BTSA today- basically I cannot get the kitemark until I am up and running and the production flow can be scrutinised, I cannot get a patent because the product is not physically new or unique (think charity wristbands- no moving parts and is unlikely to be a choking hazard) I could register the design but as there are 64 different versions that would need to be protected- and they would only have to change 3 parts of each text to be exempt from infringement. I can't protect the concept of the product.

It seems the most viable option at present is to get the silicone tested for toxicity and durability at a cost of £350- I will then be able to print on my packaging that it meets the European standard EN71. A product supplied to schools- different category to toy testing- does not need a kitemark (according to testing company today?!) but wilson I completely identify with the SEN point you make. A lion mark will be obtainable if and when the product has a proper supply chain rather than a sample status. It is going to take me forever to understand this legislation and how to apply for it!

Keepthechange Thank you, that is a good wake up call, I am going to see if I can obtain a UK only trademark without using a solicitor.
Quintissential This is a concern- even Non-Disclosure agreements aren't really worth the paper they are written on when dealing with overseas, but even if I was eligible for a patent etc- I wouldn't have the funds to follow through with any legal action.
beesnees Congratulations on taking the plunge, I hope it is all going well for you.

In my head I think I should go for it, if someone beats me to it then I have lost a bit but not our life savings. I would be devastated I completely covered my arse legally and a rival product was released but within the realms of the law.

I am genuinely touched with every post- thank you for taking the time to help me clarify this minefield!