URGENT ADVICE REQUIRED - ILL HEALTH RETIREMENT

[Pomegranate]

I am desperate for help and advice, and would be grateful for any responses.

I am currently off sick with stress, and have been for 14 weeks'. THis is due to my line manager's bullying.

I told my second line manager as she wanted a meeting(when i was off sick - found it a real struggle, but i had no choice). I told her all about the difficulties that I have had my line manager, this has been ongoing for 3 years'.

Unfortunately, she did not believe me, and refused a request from me to move to another department.

She phoned me about 2 weeks' ago, asking if i would be willing to go back to work on Monday (she phoned me on wednesday), to a temperary post for a few weeks', I said no, as I wasn't well enough to go back to work, and I am still signed off from work.

Today, i received a letter from her, stating that she is starting ill health retirement for me (basically, this is a get out clause, and she really want to get rid of me).

I am utterly distraught and devastated. My OH people did a medical assessment, and they stated that I should remain off sick, and wait until my counselling sessions have started (they haven't as yet), wait until i have had 4, then reasses me again.

Unfortunately, it seems that she has jumped the gun, and not bothered with this, i just dont know what to do.

PLEASE HELP!!

I didn't want to read and run, but just to give you a hand to hold until someone with relevant experience arrives to help you.

Thank you Orange Kat.

I am utterly distraught, I just dont know what to do. Everything seems so hopeless right now.

I'm not sure I have any proper advice for you but it sounds a tricky situation and you must be feeling awful. Has the bullying been addressed?
It would be foolish of any company to undermine their Occ Health recommendations.

Scurryfunge

I told my second line manager everything, that happened in the 3 years'. Unfortunately, she dismissed it and said he was not bullying me.

I have been crying all day, i just dont know what to do. totally at a loss.

I'd contact your HR department, and ask for a meeting with them. When dh's boss was demanding contact with him when he was signed off sick, hr were brilliant, and so were OH

Do you have any union representation? Can you put in a grievance? Have you documented the bullying? Do you have any witnessses?
Sorry for all the questions but it sounds like you are being managed out. You need someone to assst you and represent you.

Yes, I have documented the bullying the best way that I can. Unfortunately, i am not in the union.

Yes, you are right think she just wants to get rid off me. I have been speaking for over 3 years' about his bullying, and the ironic thing she actually believed me. But, when i went off sick, due to this, she didn't believe me.

I havent put in an grievance, too late now, now that she has started this.

I have been working for over 20 years', and to be treated like this is awful.

I have 5 children, not sure how i will manage.

thank you for all your helpful posts.

In our place, if you are retired on the grounds of ill health, the pension works out what you would get as a pension if you worked half the time left between now and actual retirement age, and pays that, from the day you are retired. But, it is quite clear, you must be ill enough to never work again.

If there is a cause, such as the bullying you mention, that could be resolved, and allow you to work again, I'm not sure you can be retired on grounds of ill health. Is there a chance you could work again in a different environment? If so, I don't believe retirement on grounds of ill health is possible, but I'm not HR.

Yes, i have been repeatedly been asking for a move for the past 3 years, within the building. But, she said she is not willing to transfer as i do not have a valid reason.

I am aware i wont get ill health retirement, i am off sick with stress, and i will probably be dismissed.

Ok, so it can't happen like she's trying to make it happen. Do you work somewhere big enough to have an HR department? Can you talk directly to them? Fairly sure you can put in a grievance at any point you work for them, and it definitely can be done while off sick. So it might still be worth trying - you have tried all other paths, which is one of the pre-requites.

Hope things get better soon. Are you well enough to look for another job? Yes, people do take on new staff who are currently signed off with stress. A friend got an interview after applying while off the stress, was very upfront with them about how things were at current job, and why these things were job dependant, so not going to re-occur at new place. She started last month, and has never been happier.

I agree with nextphase. My suggestion is that you contact HR and ask for a copy of the sickness absence policy, the greivance policy and if applicable the medical capability policy.

I assume the manager has inadvertantly sed the phrase 'ill health retirement' which, as you understand, is not likely to be applicable in your current circs.

OH have given appropriate advice i.e. that there is reasonable medical evidence that your health will improve in the short to mid term to allow you to be able to work effectively. A good employer would take that into accont and give you the time you need to recover.

That said, you believe there is a strong liklehod of a return to the alleged bullying situation which would case a recurrence of your stress.

I do think you need to discuss this with a HR professional or, failing that, look for some employment law advice.

I know this seems cold comfort at the moment, but as things come to a head, it might help you find a path forward after 3 years of work unhappiness. I wish you luck.

I work for the civil service. HR are based in another city, so will try phoning them on Monday.

At the moment, i am not strong enough to look for another job. I dont want ill health retirement, just want to come back to another job when i am well enough. She does know this, i have told her repeatedtly.

Also, the advice OH gave to them, can they disregard that?

I dont want ill health retirement, just want to come back to another job when i am well enough.

Good for you. The emphasis in employer/employee disputes is to try and resolve them amicably if you can. If you need to resort to a greivance it is good to show that you have tried.

Also, the advice OH gave to them, can they disregard that?

Well, they can - OH advice is just that, advice. But I am absolutely certain that no HR professional would support their company in blatently disregarding OH reports. Obviously if OH make recommendations on adjustments, lets say "Pomegranate can only work half days from such and such location" the management would have to consider whether or not that was feasable and reasonable for them to do and still achieve legitimate business needs.

You work for civil service - the policies I expect will be well established and fair. Talk to HR. Keep everything factual, you are bound to be upset but HR professionals are not unused to that! They will certainly have come across this type of situation before. Write yourself some notes before you ring. I hope you can relax a bit tommorrow. Take care.

Thank you for that Downfall

OC advice, was that I had to have had 4 counselling sessions, then they would assess this again.

At the moment, i am still awaiting an appointment for them. Yes, the civil service policies are quite intact, but i don't understand why she would act so quickly.

I am being off sick for 14 weeks', not over a year etc., Also, i have always co-operated with her, and always replied to her letters etc., She also has not offered me anything alternative. ie.e reduced hours, reduced days, even lower pay rank. absolutely nothing.

It just feels like she is pushing me out.

Oh, I feel for you Pomegranate.
It is particularly insensitive for your manager to want to do this when OH have clearly told him/her that you need to establish counselling therapy before an improvement in your mental health can be expected.
I bet the policies don't recommend acting so quickly.....

Very odd that they won't transfer you to a different manager. But can you apply for a different post on level transfer and make an escape yourself? (I realise that now is not the best moment for this suggestion - sorry)

The reason why they won't transfer me to another department, as she has stated that there is no justification for it.

Even though I have stated all the issues that I have had with my line manager, apparently, it is not good enough.

Wish I knew what to do. just dont even know where to start.

Hello Pomegranate,
What I know about employment law I could write on my thumb nail but I am sure that the line manager is not following correct procedure. Get yourself to the nearest CAB with an employment specialist and talk to her/him. You can speak or email your nearest CAB too. Hang on to any correspondence and only deal with emails/letters from work. Personally I would avoid phone calls as you have no way of proving their content.
Remember you are ill and vulnerable (I don't mean weak) and need external support. Concentrate on your health and family. Tell your GP what is going on. Don't despair. There are people with great expertise around (and you have been given good advice here already) and I hope someone will get back to you soon. If you are with the civil service, I am sure there must be ample policies and procedures. Get hold of copies. What will be important will be your ability to prove that you raised concerns about bullying before this. Did you ever discuss the situation with colleagues?Sending you best wishes Marmite

I work in occupational health (only on admin side) but it seems ridiculous to suggest IHR in your case. I don't think she's following correct procedure either.

I would contact HR and see if they are a bit more professional and sympathetic.

If it's any comfort, the norm would be to wait until you've received counselling and recovered to some extent then be rehabilitated back to work. This often involves removing the source of stress that was making you ill in the first place - i.e. a similar role for you in a different branch or department if available.

What is your manager's side of the story, OP? Has there been any talk of performance issues? Not saying that this is relevant in your case, but people often say they're being bullied and take time off with stress if they're being taken through a capability process or similar. If there has been talk of any performance issues (valid or otherwise), I'm afraid your second line manager may not take the bullying allegations seriously.

Was the temporary work that she offered you in your normal department or somewhere different?

When are your counselling sessions due to start? Do you have access to counselling as an employee?

14 weeks is a long time. Have you discussed medication with your GP to help you get through this stressful time and find a solution?

I don't think it's too late for you to put in a grievance OP. It might be your only option right now. They'll have to investigate it properly, so it should at least give you an opportunity to put your side of the story.

14 weeks is quite a long time to be off with stress if you haven't put in a grievance tbh. If they're refusing to redeploy you elsewhere on the grounds that they don't feel there is any justification to do so, what were you hoping would happen next? You can't stay off sick forever, and I'm guessing the bullying manager is going nowhere. A few counselling sessions are unlikely to change how you feel about the current set-up, so you really need to think about what outcomes you could live with.

If the only option that would work for you is to transfer to another team, you need to make them believe that there is a very good justification for doing so. A well-evidenced grievance might be a good place to start. However, they're very unlikely to move you if there are performance issues, as that would just be shifting the problem. If your manager has raised issues of this nature, then I think you need to think about whether you can address her concerns (valid or otherwise) or else start focusing on the best possible exit strategy.