Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Flip

Original poster

To be a successful woman you have to be a bitch.

14 replies

NotAChocolateRaisin · 01/09/2012 16:41

Typical scenario, if a man is hard working and confident then he's a champion, if a woman is hard working and confident then she's a bitch.

What are people's views on this? I don't understand why women can't be girly and soft and still successful? (I'm sure there are plenty of examples, though) It seems that the role models of female success are bolshy and, well, man-like.

The apprentice, for example, you have to shout down everyone else to get your opinion heard.

I'm in no way saying that successful women are bitches etc etc so please keep those kind of replies at bay.

OP posts:

mellen · 01/09/2012 16:44

You dont have to be a bitch, but you do have to be appropriately assertive. Some people (and some apprentice candidates) confuse the two.

honeyjar · 01/09/2012 17:24

Hi, from personal experience, I found when I was assertive, the senior menin my company said I was aggressive. When my male colleagues acted the same way they were being assertive!
Left a bit bitter and twisted by whole experience, and after many run ins with them I resigned.

mrscumberbatch · 01/09/2012 17:32

I don't think that you have to be a bitch. Just unfathomably clever

You have to find some way of being assertive without people ever actually thinking that you're being assertive.

mcmooncup · 01/09/2012 17:32

I have my own business and am in no way a bitch. Quite the opposite. I run the company with integrity, empathy and shared responsibility. EVEN when we are dealing with cunts. Works for me

mrscumberbatch · 01/09/2012 17:33

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons mcmooncup, by calling them 'cunts' does that not make you a bitch by proxy?

mcmooncup · 01/09/2012 19:30

Ha ha maybe!
But there are a lot of cock swinging cunts in business prepared to treat everyone like total shite. I don't let them get away with it. And do it ever so nicely
Even that sounds very passive aggressive but it's hard to get over how little I don't behave like that. I recognise the narcissists and sociopaths, and even just doing that makes me want to be different. I don't see long term benefit in acting like a cunt. My way of running a business takes people a bit by surprise very often. Makes them all unsettled. Goes against the deep belief that we are all out to screw someone over....

mrscumberbatch · 01/09/2012 20:01

I think we may use the same strategy mcmooncup. I can be alarmingly nice at times

A lot of people see passive aggressiveness as a flaw but I don't necessarily think that it is!

mcmooncup · 01/09/2012 20:15

I would be disgusted with myself though if someone thought I had screwed them over.

I actually have a horrid situation at the moment that is testing my resolve. My company does something quite niche, and is first to market....and to cut a long story short I met someone at an exhibition 12 months ago, told them what we do, gave literature etc. Anyway last week our main customer told me they had been approached by this company to provide a service like ours....ok I thought.....prob won't be quite the same.....looked at their website and MY FUCKING WRITING is all over their website. My actual words. So they've nicked our product, literally. And are pitching to our customers. There's a cunt right there.
I'm deciding on my strategy right now. Hopefully one that doesn't involve dogshit through the post......this is a situation where I am tested to the limit

Less · 01/09/2012 20:19

I think that's a common mistake made by women actually. They think they need to be "tough" and "manlike" but actually that's rubbish.

12 months ago a said goodbye to a 23 year career where I had almost always been the only woman where I worked. (left by choice because in the end I decided I really didn't want it more than I wanted to be there for my family, which I actually think is the real reason why there aren't more women in top jobs, but that's another thread)

While I was there I used say equality, why would I want to be like you lot? I did well and I achieved the same aims and objectives as them, but I did it in a completely different way. The way that came naturally to me as a woman, rather than trying to be something that I'm not. If I'd tried to be more masculine, it would have been an act and that's when it can seem to be aggression imo.

Zoelda · 01/09/2012 20:23

Über cunt. Whatcha gonna do about it?

No need to be a bitch or assertive or anything bother than who you are. If you try to be something youre not then it won't work out for you.

mcmooncup · 01/09/2012 20:31

I agree Less. I worked in a very male 'testosterone filled'/ excuse for being a cunt, environment for a long time. I feel liberated now I have my own company and can set the culture myself.
As for my tricky situation, I'm thinking of contacting the company/cunt under the guise of "wow we do similar work....how did you develop the product? What results are you getting? The market is big enough for both of us".....bla bla. Just so they KNOW I fucking KNOW. But any suggestions welcome

Less · 01/09/2012 20:50

FWIW mcmooncup, I never found the testosterone levels of my colleagues as problem. They would give "bitch" type women either a very wide birth (like not allowing them to be involved in their projects) or fight back hard if women tried to stab them in the back, but they treated me with complete respect. I left because I wasn't prepared to work 60/70 hour weeks anymore, which I'm afraid many men with families are.

As regards your situation - I once saw a man play it exactly the way you suggest. I had huge respect for him actually, was I thought, one of the truly decent ones, but he's recently been arrested for money laundering

mcmooncup · 01/09/2012 21:21

Yeah totally with you on the competitive hours thing. I don't know whether it's a myth or not but apparently Microsoft have a policy that people can do whatever hours they need to, to get the job done, and it's pretty much frowned upon if you do the 60-70 hour week because it means you are actually incompetent!
May not be true, but like the idea. I found much of the after hours work to be generally laced with bullshit and cock waving.

And damnit about your respected colleague.....I'm not sure I'd know how to money launder so we are safe there

DolomitesDonkey · 02/09/2012 07:13

mcmooncup I work in the Netherlands where excess overtime is not only seen as a sign of incompetence and poor management, but, if I do excess hours on a regular basis my manager can go to prison! Idea being that if there genuinely is so much work then there are 2 jobs, not 1.

(Sorry to hi-jack)

Back to the original point, IME women who "mimic" perceived male behaviour are detested by all.

Flip

Swipe left for the next trending thread