How long does a self certificate last for? do i need to see gp?

[PavlovtheCat]

I had one week off work in second week of June covered by self cert. Followed by an additional two weeks covered by gp certificate. I returned to work for two weeks, then i was off again for two weeks covered by gp certificate. I then returned to work for 1 week, followed by two weeks annual leave. All sick leave has been for the same reason.

I am due to return to work tomorrow but the reason I have been off sick so much has reoccured/continued to the point I am struggling and I am not sure if I am going to be well enough to return to work tomorrow.

Do I need to talk to my GP for medical certificate (which is not a problem as my condition is ongoing and I can telephone him for a certificate) or can I complete a further self certificate?

Bumping

I think as you were signed back albeit onto annual leave you could use a self cert but I ow my work would be funny about it so if you can easily get a GP cert I'd do that I think.

*know

I think that if it's the same illness then you would need a docs cert to be on the safe side.

Self cert covers you for first three days of any illness even if it is a reoccurring/chronic illness. By day four you need a doctors cert and from then on qualify for sick pay according to your company policy.

It's bloody complicated and has just been changed that you can self certify for 7 days before requiring a doctors note but check your staff handbook as it can vary.

HTH

You can self certify for a week but in your case I wouldn't.

Bella is wrong about "By day four you need a doctors cert and from then on qualify for sick pay according to your company policy." You don't need a doctor's certificate for SSP (a Med 3) until you've been off for a week. You don't need a doctor's certificate here and if you do want one, your GP is entitled to charge you because they might take the view that it is a private note.

Employers asking for a doctor?s statement for the first seven days of an employee?s sickness are referred to the Statutory Sick Pay Manual for Employers ? National Insurance Contributions Series CA30, Paragraph 28, which states ?you (the employer) cannot ask for a doctor?s statement for seven
days or less of a spell of sickness?.

As you can see from the self-certification form www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/sc2.pdf, it needs filled in from Day 4 but by you, not a doctor.

thanks all. As it happens I felt ok enough to get into work.

But to be honest I was being lazy and also not wanting to talk to GP yet again as I seem to talk to him weekly about millions of things these days, but I probably will not bother with a self cert for any further absences relating to it. Probably gives it more credence (is that the word?) to show that my GP feels it is not appropriate for me to be at work at that particular time (i say that as it is likely I will be off again at some point in the future).

Bartlett - But although they couldn't require it for SSP, they could still require a note for any period of their choosing for enhanced sick pay couldn't they? Hence doctors trying to discourage the practice and reserving the right to charge for a private note.

An employer can tell an employer to get one but they can't compel a doctor to give them one. The Dept of Health is very clear about this.

"Despite clear guidance on this matter, some employers will nonetheless request that the patient produce a 'sick note', often out of mistrust of their employees, or in an attempt to police casual absences. A useful note to return to the employers is set out below"

www.ganfyd.org/index.php?title=Get_a_note_from_your_doctor#Self-certification

An employer just can't tell a doctor what to do! It's the employer's problem, not the NHS's, if they don't trust their employees.

I totally agree that an employer can't compel a doctor to issue a sick note. And I totally agree that employers should find different ways of policing sickness absence if they have trust issues with their employees. I am not for one second arguing that employers should require sick notes for short periods of absence. I think that doing so is daft and a waste of NHS resources.

BUT that standard form letter is talking about SSP. I can't find that Inland Revenue manual online - the only links to it suggest ordering it rather than it displaying as a pdf - but I can't see that HMRC have any authority over what employers choose to do in terms of policies before payment of enhanced sick pay. HMRC can say 'you may not ask for a sick note for the first seven days for SSP purposes' but I am not sure they can say 'you are not entitled to ask for a sick note for the first seven days before you pay additional company sick pay'. That sort of rule would need to be made by the government, probably under a statutory instrument. I don't think HMRC can have any authority over it. And since all those standard form letters (I have had a google and seen lots of institutions and organisations use them) seem to use the same format, I suspect that there isn't any specific legislation relevant to enhanced company sick pay.

Of course, many doctors will refuse to issue a note for short periods, which hopefully puts employers off having such an unreasonable condition.

Employers are of course perfectly entitled to put whatever terms and conditions they like on enhanced sick pay, which may include a doctors note earlier than 7 days. That's not the employer telling doctors what to do.

I am fortunate in that my employers have worked with me all the way with my health problem, they have not asked for all absences to be certified by gp even for my enhanced pay. And on the other side, my gp has not told me I have to use self cert at any time I have had time off to date. If I go to see him and thinks I should not be working, he just gives me the certificate for however long he thinks I need to be off. For example after my two weeks at work following 3 weeks off, it was my gp who pretty much insisted I not go back to work for another period of time and just wrote it out.

That is why I don't know if he did that because he is a supportive gp, or if my self cert was not valid as I had used one already for that illness/recently.