Disiplinary hearing - help and advice - urgent please.

[worriedtohell]

Original thread here:

update

update - called for disiplinary - gross misconduct.

evidence: screen shot of penis

Secondary accusation of internet use in work time, evidenced by a 15 min time slot ( in the whole 2.8 years of being there) of internet use, prior to going home time. captured by screen shot.

FB has somehow been hacked also. While i was in the original investagatory meeting..... i went into work that day at 9am, the meeting was at 9.15 am. I had time to check the work emails, had a wee, spent some mins having a coughing fit in the loo ( was unwell) according to the handwritten note from my boss i had left FB logged in. I WOULD HAVE BEEN INSANE TO HAVE LOGGED ONTON THE INTERNET WHILE UNDER INVESTATION. not counting the fact that i was only at my desk for about 5 mins. My FB activity log has been printed off, and they have high lightted from my activity log any posts that may have happened in work time.
Of course these dont say if they are from the PC or phone. So, essentially count for nothing as mobile phone use is allowed.

An independed IT consultant has done a testomiomal, of which i have not as yet seen.

My boss who found the image has done a witness statement. The date she has put on the witness statement is two days later than the date form the orignal letter, and the date that i was told the image was found. ALSO, she says she found the image at 4pm. When, if you look at the signing in book, it shows that i was in the office till 4:20 pm that day.

And this is their only evidence for gross misconduct.

How is this even possible?

One thing that stands out for me is you,emotion they say that your Facebook log shows your activity. I may have misunderstood but what Facebook log? Does fb actually have a facility where you can log on and see when you've been on fb? If so surely it's only available to see your own profile? So how have they seen yours?

I've just google fb activity log. It's taken me to fb info page and it says on it " only you can see your log". So if they're producing that then they've hacked in to your fb.

Yes, he is.
He said that it should instantly be thrown out because It's all such a joke.

Have spoken to acas who said if I logged an appeal the disiplinary would be postponed while that was looked into, and maybe be dropped off the back of the findings.

This sounds good to me.
As I can't see how they couldn't take note, because I have paper evidence, they Have sent me, that refutes my bosses claims.

But you think It's better to just save it as a defence?

My worry with that is, I wont have had a chance to log, officially my claims that this is fabricated by my boss.
That if I'm cleared, I'll have to work with her knowing she told all these lies about me. That she may continue telling lies about me.

If i don't log the grieviance, and I get dismissed I get no money and my next step is appeal

But

If I log it, it will take longer, so, more wages, plus the chance it will get thrown out before it gets that far.

Yes, they have produced my fb activity log. Logged in as me.

From a time I was actually in the investagatory meeting.
My boss claims I had left myself logged in, even if I had, it would have been inactive on that pc for nearly 2 hours. On my home pc if I don't touch fb for that long, it times me out and I have to log back in.
However, I know, with no doubt, that I did not log into fb that day.

He is an employment law expert. I agree that it should all be thrown out but that doesn't mean holding evidence back is sensible, as if they are silly enough to bring this case in the first place the more evidence you can give proving how ridiculous it is the better.

I have no idea why Acas think throwing a grievance into the mix is a good idea. It will delay the whole process, but there is nothing you can say in a grievance that you can't say in your defence in a disciplinary hearing, and if it's going to get thrown out when you raise this stuff, that will happen at the disciplinary hearing just as easily as it would at the grievance hearing that will need to be arranged.

If you don't get dismissed and want to raise a grievance separately afterwards about how this was all handled and your boss's behaviour, then you still have that option.

Sorry that should have been 'He is an employment law expert??', a question rather than a statement.

But what if I do get dismissed?
Then I've lost that chance.....

What would you put in a grievance that you wouldn't include in your defence, and why wouldn't you include it?

As far as I know, even if you get dismissed, you can still lodge a grievance.

I'm with Flowery, I think you need to rebut the IT evidence, now.

In fact, there is an argument that you wouldn't be able to introduce new evidence at an appeal, unless it couldn't reasonably have been considered at the original hearing.

Thanks. Ive got an appt with a unison rep Monday, so Will go through this and take her advice. I do agree with what you are both saying. I think the same.
Just I was told otherwise.

I'm now on two weeks annual leave, they have said the meeting will be after that. So, I have some Time.

Where on earth do I go to find someone to discredit the it report?

"Yes, they have produced my fb activity log. Logged in as me.

From a time I was actually in the investagatory meeting.
My boss claims I had left myself logged in, even if I had, it would have been inactive on that pc for nearly 2 hours. On my home pc if I don't touch fb for that long, it times me out and I have to log back in.
However, I know, with no doubt, that I did not log into fb that day."

Well this question should be quite easily established from the times on the activity log. You said earlier there was a 5 minute window that you could have logged on, immediately prior to the investigation meeting. What time does the activity log show you logging on at? Was it during this time? Or was it when you were actually in the meeting? Surely the minutes of the meeting record what time it started and ended?

I would be asking them to explain how they've managed to get your fb activity log. The fact they have it surely proves that someone you work with is logging into your fb account?

I'm not sure where you could get one. I have googled IT expert witness, and it has come up with some possibilities. Given that they are considering the adequacy of the other report, not examining the computer itself, I would have thought it could be done by e-mail, which might reduce costs.

Perhaps approach the IT Dept at your local uni?

I know of a few people, but they are based in NI.

Perhaps try on the tech threads on here?

OK, I have just checked my own FB activity log, and it doesn't show log in times - so apologies. But it might be worth contacting Facebook to see if they would hold this information (might be clutching at straws).

Thank you so much for your help.
I really appreciate it so much. You have no idea.

Maybe the unison lady might know someone.

He Didnt even examine the pc, just commented on the screen shots they showed him.

Worried sorry to see you back, had hoped it had all worked out ok

If you ever logged into fb on your work pc had it saved your password?
It seems as though your boss is not above trying to pin something on you and you would have a constructive dismissal case if this is true.

You really need a good enployment solicitor, you simply can't do this without one.

Sorry worried, thought you were Apple
Lots of good advice on her thread possibly?

Leaving aside the intrusion of looking at your fb even if you did accidentally leave it logged on... The activity log (not the same as a Timeline) on FB also notes activity that relates to you but not necessarily done by you, e.g., it will show an activity if someone else tags you in a photo.

IMPORTANT to Obtain activity log I am sure you need to re enter password, can anyone check on this?

No. Just looked at mine and wasn't asked to re-enter my password.

Have seen a unison rep who advised me to try for a pay off and a good ref.

Said It's all pointless as they clearly want me out, and there isn't really any case, but she sees it all the time with small employers.

I feel absolutely gutted, powerless and very down about it all. Actually It's horrific the position they have put me in.

I Didnt.do it, they dont have any evidence, the unison rep said I can refute all thier evidence, but if they still believe on the balance of probabilities it was me, they can do what they want.
I feel very small and very hopeless.

I have no experience of compromise agreements, perhaps flowery et al can advise.

It does sound as though it would be impossible to go back, given it is such a small organisation, and that you boss seems to have been the driving force behind this. I would really love to know the circumstance on how she 'stumbled' across this.

However I think it is really important to clear your name. The alternative is to clear your name and resign, (or worst case scenario, be dismissed) and go for constructive / unfair dismissal. However this can be all consuming, and expensive, so there is perhaps, merit in the compromise agreement approach.

I think you need legal advice. I suspect they will only go for a decent compromise if they have the crap scared out of them, and you need a good lawyer to do this.

What is it you want?

If I were you, my wish list would be (in no particular order):

1. An acknowledgement / acceptance that I was innocent.
2. Payment in lieu of notice - decent amount
3. Good reference
4. Investigation of a grievance against your boss

What about the jobs you have applied for? Have you heard anything?

Poor you, have you got support in RL?

I agree with that list. Have contacted citizens advice and am hoping to find a solicitor who will give 30 mins free advice or something?
Or might work to be paid on pay out?

I agree with your list.

I have Been offered another job, but my current employment is down as a ref, so the offer might be retracted.... Been trying to get hold of new job to try to change ref to another one.
I have rl emotional support.....

I've taken a compromise agreement with a previous employer. Its a way of them getting rid of you, but they give you a pay off and a good reference. It should all be done via their solicitor and you get a solicitor to check the agreement and then you sign off as long as you are happy. It's very much like redundancy BUT they can refill your post straight away.

I got
1 months notice which I took at home,
4 months salary, tax free, in a lump sum

plus a good reference.

You can agree the terms up front (there is no set amount), along with the reference, it's then drawn up in a legally binding contract and signed by both parties.

Sometimes its a good way of getting out of a situation that neither of you are happy with.

I still put this employer down as a reference now and it's always come back fine.

Feel free to pm me if you want any further details.

Op did you ever read the link on your first threadwww.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2182006/Married-churchgoing-mother-50-sacked-wrongly-accused-watching-hardcore-porn-work-wins-20-000-payout.html she won at a tribunal.