'phased return' after time off sick?

[fuzzpig]

Just reposting this from the midst of another thread in case anyone here can help.

After a chest infection I have got viral myalgia and have been signed off until late August (will have been off a month) as that's when I'm expected to get better. However I am not recovering as expected and although nothing is proved yet it looks like this is actually a flare up of a longer term problem (fibromyalgia/CFS etc) as I've had similar problems for over a year.

Point is (sorry just don't want to drip feed) I am really scared that going back to FT straight away will be detrimental to my longer term health. I have heard of a phased return but don't know how it works.

As well as maybe starting on less hours, it would be best if the timetable was adjusted a bit - my job has some very physical elements and

oops

... is on a par with some heavier retail type tasks. Technically it would not be difficult to adjust the timetable so I could avoid the worst tasks, but I don't know how willing they'd be to do this, and I am scared of being seen as a total PITA when I've already had health problems.

Can anyone advise?

Most good employers should consider this as a matter of course, and if you can present a reasonably plan and timescale so much the better. You might only be paid for the hours you actually work though. Phased returns can be hugely successful in getting people back to work - I would definitely suggest a plan to them.

Thank you. I work for the council and they are good generally. How do I approach it? I'm going to see my doctor, would he have to put something on my sick note?

I also have to see occupational health (ATOS healthcare... Yaaaaay) due to having a lot of time off and one of the things they usually discuss is apparently whether this job is right for me :( would be able to get a transfer I guess but I bloody love my job... but what can I do if it is just too exhausting. I only work at all because DH is waiting for surgery and has been unable to work for 2 years. It's such a mess.

My experience with the Occ Health, is they were so delighted to be interviewing someone whoa actually wanted to be at work, they were bending over backwards to try to accommodate me when I went back after my Cancer treatment. They were insisting on me doing far less than I was saying I would do. I thought it all a bit ridiculous at the time, but, once I started back, I was very pleased they had insisted on restricting me, as I was shattered, and needed that slow start back. Ultimately, I guess they were a lot more experienced than me at working with people who had been off sick for a while. It is helpful if your GP can put things like - no heavy lifting, or not to be sitting in rush hour traffic for over an hour each way, or something on your return to work note. They can be very helpful starting points.

Thanks. No heavy lifting is definitely an important one! Rest breaks also but I guess they wouldn't be paid.

Crap, my manager is going to visit to discuss referral to OH, will be worrying she is really just trying to work out if I'm actually sick or not! [paranoid emoticon]

Standard procedure - my manager came round to visit me, and we had to fil in the form together - you have to sign to say you agree to being referred to Occ Health. (S)he's not checking up on you, it's a pain in the behind as it's more form filling and time (s)he could be spending doing other things, but it's not about checking up on you.

Thank you that's very reassuring. By then I will also have seen the doctor again so I will have more info on what might be wrong with me. ATM I just don't know if this is a short term or 'acute' episode of fatigue/myalgia or if it's triggered off a longer episode as seemingly happens to lots of people I've spoken to. For a year I have found the job physically draining and have suspected that I may have something wrong with me but I was too stubborn and scared to admit it until now :(

In our place, a phased return is quite common after long-term absence. Usually how it happens is that the person does 25% of hours in the 1st week back, 50% hours in the 2nd, 75% in the third week, with a view to achieving full hours in the 4th week.

If this is part of a condition that you have had for over a year, then you may be covered by DDA - in which your employer must make reasonable adjustments.

Sorry to hear you have been so unwell, and hope the prognosis is good news.

A home visit after 4 weeks off is standard practice for my work (also public sector), although you could ask to meet at a coffee shop if you can't be arsed cleaning would prefer.

I did offer to go in (it's only a quick bus ride) but she said as I should be resting she would come to me, fair enough.

Gradually increasing hours sounds good but the way I feel now I can't imagine coping with any of it. Keep bursting into tears as it hurts just to stand up - not a good look!

I am pretty certain I've had this for over a year, but the problem is, nobody's really known about it. I had a few health worries before I started work and looking back it was the start of it. After a few tests came back clear I just gave up and focused on my new job. All the exhaustion and the frequent illness I put down to the new job - even after 8 months of part time! My next doctors appt I will be telling him just how much I've been struggling. Work/Doctors have only known about individual illnesses each time rather than the bigger picture. I didn't realise how abnormal my struggles were until recently. If it is something like ME, there's no way I will have a dx anytime soon, as they have to rule out other stuff first. So I don't think the DDA would apply to me. I can't really just spring it on them can I :(

There is guidance about what may be DDA. I will see if I can find it. I don't think it needs to have been diagnosed for over a year, just that you have had it.

What is CFS?

Chronic fatigue syndrome, aka ME (myalgic encephalyelitis). I think it's a distinct possibility, but various other more treatable problems have to be tested for first - though I guess it depends on the doctor. So really the most I can say at the moment is 'fatigue'

I hope they don't think it's because of MH issues - I have a couple and am dealing with them, which work are aware of, but I am scared they'll think it's because of them that I'm off (when in reality I've only had time off for one MH related GP appt, and in any case work helps my mental health not hinders it). I guess that makes me more anxious for a formal something or other from the doctor.

OK time for what I hope is a stupid question - when it really comes down to it, can I be fired over being off sick too much?

Can you ask your manager to bring the managing absence policy with him / her when they visit? This should set out the various triggers for formal action due to attendance.

It is possible to dismiss someone due to poor attendance, but this is usually only after all other options within the absence policy have been followed. Your work may use a trigger system, such as the Bradford factor, where the number of days off sick are multiplied by the number of absences squared. So if you have had two periods of 5 days each, your Bradford score is 10 x (2 squared) = 40. Similarly, 1 absence in the last year of 30 days gives a Bradford score of 30. Once someone reaches a certain trigger point, then managers assess whether you should be given a warning for absence. They need to take into account any mitigating factors, such as DDA, or medical reports.

If you have a DDA condition, it may give you some protection, but it is reasonable adjustments, and if absence is very long-term, there may be no other viable alternative. But if you have only been off for a month so far, this is all a long way off, and worrying about it is unlikely to help with stress levels.

I have said this on other threads - when you go to see Occ Health, it is a good idea to have prepared some written bullet points to hand to the Doctor about how your condition is affecting you on a day to day basis. It means there can be fewer misunderstandings about what was said, and also helps you not to forget things or get confused during the appointment. If you can bring someone to the appointment it might also help.

This guidance on DDA will help. It is long but worth reading through in detail.

The Act defines a disabled person as a person with ?a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long- term adverse effect on his ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities?. Note that it specifies the impairment, and not the diagnosis. The guidance also covers fluctuating conditions, and considers the cumulative effect on activities. So you may be able to lift a chair, but you might spend the next 2 days in pain as a result.

fuzzpig - you can just ask your manager to refer you to OH asap, no real need for her to come and talk to you about it.

After you have seen OH then will be the time to see your manager as she will get a report and then you can talk about work and the best way forward - explain you don't want to come back and do to much and that put your health back and you end up off work again as you want to be at work - not stuck at home.

depending on what your manager is like - I took mine with me to OH the second time as you can take someone with you, it worked really well as it was then a three way chat about how to manage my work load and make sure I wasn't off sick. I found it much better as my manager was there and could add suggestions as to how we managed my work load that was to my advantage.

It's not that I am wanting to be referred to OH, it's that I've been referred because of hitting absence triggers :( we have a system like Beryl suggested but it's more basic, it just goes on the number of distinct absences irrespective of their length. Before this illness started in June I had only had 3 absences of less than 2 days each. But I feel like I'm being told off.

Went to the doctors and he suspects CFS. :( Got shed loads of blood tests first to rule other stuff out (standard procedure before diagnosis can occur). He also wouldn't put phased return on my certificate in case I'm not better on time (or on the tiny chance I am ready to go FT straight away)

So what should I ask my manager tomorrow? And what should I tell her about the doctor's view? I want to keep her informed and make sure I return to work at a safe pace but don't want to jump the gun in case it turns out it's something else.

Sorry I'm completely clueless, I've never had a proper job before so this is all new to me.

You are not being told off. Your employer has a fairly basic trigger system yes, but it is actually a sign of a good employer that they make sure possible issues get picked up early.

When you talk to your manager I would just be completely honest - you don't know what it is, there may be long term underlying issues but you are still getting to the bottom of it, you want to come back as soon as you are able, but you think you might need to talk about phased return/phased introduction of tasks when the time comes.

IME managers basically want to know - Are you planning on coming back, or do you see this as a permanent absence? If they know someone is keen to come back, keen to co-operate, etc, most will bend over backwards to support you. What gets their backs up is when they don't realise until 12 months down the line that either the person was sadly never going to have been well enough, or that the person didn't actually want to come back (not suggesting that people fake it, that is very rare, but there is a section of the workforce for whom an illness makes them realise they don't want to be in that job).