Collegue and CRB

[crazynanna]

I work in an Outpatient department in a hospital (Phlebotomist),and we have recently set on 3 new staff members (won the funding war!). The new staff are shadowed until their CRB clearances are through.

One of the new staff,a lady in her 50s',got a letter from CRB she told me today that said someone with her name has come up with recorded details and to call them.She did so,and they said some convictions have come to light from over 30 years ago. She was very distressed today when telling me,and in between sobs she said in her youth/younger days she was involved for a short time in the sex industry in her home town,and had been arrested a couple of times (and I think convicted) for soliciting. When I asked why she didn't write it on the form,she said because it was 30+ years ago,it would have been 'wiped' so she didn't think she had to declare it. To be fair,she hasn't worked for 18 years as she was caring for her disabled child (now an adult living independtly),and she has no clue how the CRB thing works. She now wants to go to the manager tomorrow and resign,because she believes she will get the sack anyway.

I didn't know what to say to her (have only known her 3 weeks),but I told her to just go and see the manager and explain what she has told me.

Do you think the manager will let her go? Are incidents from 30 years ago relevent?

The fact she didn't declare them was I believe a misunderstanding of the system,so I don't know where she will stand with this "not telling"

It is in a roundabout way a "sexual" offence I suppose....I just feel a bit sorry for her. She really enjoys the work and is a good worker fitting in well.

I work for the NHS, they are quite sensible about past convitions if they were declard before the CRB came back

when it's not, they usually worry more about the non-declaration more then the actual conviction, and don't like to hire people who aren't transparent and honest.

Its not the convition that does it, its witholding it and decieving them

If this question was asked about her old convictions in relation to declaring them I'ld say she had a good chance of still being hired, they DO hire ex offenders in the NHS, but given that she witheld it I'd say he chances are not good!

Oh..and I can't spell colleague either

that's okay there's (obviously) lots of things I can't spell

Oh dear...that doesn't sound good.

Thanks for the reply.
She is going to see the manager after her shift tomorrow.

she might be lucky if she explains that she didn't understand that it was about historic convictions etc
BUT I'm pretty sure that there is a pretty straight forward yes/no tick box on the standard applicatin form asking if you have EVER had a criminal conviction (think its on the ethnic background page not main application). The question is pretty straight forward and hard to misinterpret so if she ticked "no" they might not buy the historic thing

for her though it does sound like she made a genuine mistake, hope she does manage to explain

Me too

Our Manager is pretty good and level headed, and I know there is a guy in the Labs that has done a jail sentence for drugs..but he obviously admitted it though.

I will give you an update tomorrow.
Thankyou

Just as a casual opinion...this CRB thing does make me feel uncomfortable,the way all your history is shown to complete strangers',even if the offence does not affect the post someone applies for iyswim.

Like, say you had a caution for shoplifting...how is that a bearing on someone working with people in a hospital?

I do fully understand the need for CRB checking and I am glad they do it...but I think the CRB should only be allowed to disclose the nature of the historical conviction if is relevent to the post. And if it isn't,it should have a format like

Convictions unrelated to post....YES....

sort of thing. I just think to have your old history laid bare like that to people and is totally unrelated to your job is a bit unfair and personal

But it is there for a reason and that's that I suppose.

The basis on which the CRB works is that it is purely there to provide records. It is not their function to make value judgements as to whether or not a particular conviction/caution/whatever is relevant for the role. That is the employer's responsibility (or the voluntary organisation's if it is a voluntary role). After all, the employer knows the requirements of the job far better than the CRB.

Of course, even if the CRB did make that judgement, it would still involve a complete stranger seeing your history. It would just mean that stranger would be a CRB employee instead of the responsible person at your employer.

Yes I see your point prh47.

I do fully welcome the basic idea of checks though. History has showed us all that they are ultimately needed.

I personally think shoplifting would be a relevant concern for any post as it proves dishonesty

But isn't any crime a 'dishonesty' in a way?

you are right to a point but there is a big differnce between a driving offence and theft -which shoplifting is

anyway I don't want to hijack the thread so I'll shut up now

no need to shut up.

I don't think you have to declare driving offences...but i may be wrong.

I do hope my Manager is sympathetic to this lady. It seems a bit unfair as it was so long ago,but like a pp says..it is about the fact she didn't say anything.

I think a shoplifting conviction would be very relevant to employment in a hospital where semi-conscious people have valuables with them, TBH.

(not that phlebotomists would be dealing directly with those people, but they'd be wandering around the hospital in an official-looking uniform)

I remember filling in my form 3 years ago when starting with the HR officer,and I joked and said "I will write the last of the great train robbers'!" and he laughed and told me that I would be surprised at some of the crazy stories people explain when filling in the form,and he doesn't remember anyone getting turned down for the job involved.

The guy in the lab got his job after doing a jail sentence even.

I suppose they do use common sense. I would think there are a large majority of people who have something from the past on their record. I think it is persistent and current offending they are concerned with

I thought that after a certain period of time, most convictions are 'spent' and do not have to be declared (unless perhaps you are applying for a job that involves contact with childeren?) And what about juvenile convictions? I don't think they form part of your record once oyu become an adult and they took place xx years ago. (eg. 'twokking' when you were a daft 16-yr old and you are now a sober-sided 42....) And I don't think driving convictions that do not result in jail time have to be declared.

Theft is an act of dishonesty around goods, money etc Bad driving can injure and kill people !!

A friend in her 40s, model citizen in responsible job, had a standard CRB check done a couple of years ago. It threw up a caution for something she did aged 14. She was in pieces but it was waved away by her new (and subsequent) employer as no longer relevant; characters often change over the course of 30 years.

She has since been told that if everyone's juvenile records were factored in, many thousands more people would be unemployable!

I think soliciting is a public order offence, rather than a sex offence, if that makes sense?

I think my worry for her is the non disclosure of her past. eventhough she did think it had been wiped,she still didn't declare it,and I am thinking it is that which will be the danger area for keeping her job or not.

Let's hope management are sympathetic. I do know all new posts are conditional to CRB clearance....so she is sort of on a trial.

The issue is not about the conviciton but the signed declaration. however if this is a first CRB the lady would have been told at the time that the convictions would be wiped from teh slate. Most people who are signatories know this and will have dealt with similar before. She needs to go and see the person responsible straight away. However, I am a bit confused by your post because the CRB doesn't usually ask people to call them; and when you refer to the call being about a lady with your name it made me think there was someone with the same name, possibly a stolen identity, who had become confused with your colleague. I have known that to happen and it a takes a while to iron out. But it is very unlikely the CRB would have made a phone call.

That bit doesn't stack up and the add that together with the fact that she signed a declaration saying she didn't have convictions makes me feel there is more to this than meets the eye.

She said they sent her a letter saying "someone with your details has come up with a record and in order to clear it up you need to do fingerprints. Alternatively you can call us and we can have a telephone conversation in order to clear it up,and if you agree the record is yours there will be no need for fingerprints"

Or something to that effect (she was telling me in the cloakroom in tears so i found it hard to get the gist)

Right off to work.

Will let you know the outcome not that you're interested but just to close the query

tartyflette - For most purposes convictions and cautions do become spent after a period of time so you don't have to declare them. However, any conviction or caution you have ever had will appear on a CRB disclosure regardless of how old it is (or how young you were when the offence took place). CRB disclosures are only available for certain types of job where the employer is entitled to ask about spent convictions.

I agree with the others it's the non disclosure that's gonna get her in trouble rather than the offence itself. Does sound harsh if she didn't understand it misread the form...... Let us know.