Unreasonable Line Manager - What do I do ?

[BabiesEverywhere]

To date I have been very relaxed and happy and everyone has noticed it but I am feeling down about the attitude of my line manager and director towards my pregnancy (BTW they are both women in their 40's/50's and have no children of their own.)

The director has not mentioned anything about my pregnancy yet, she treats it like a business problem. She only talks to me about work issues.

My line manager attitude is how much trouble my pregnancy will cause her and I have been told that she refused to put money into the collection for me at work, when the other nice ladies bought me some flowers to say congratulations.

The big problem is that I am scared of hospitals and am planning a home water birth which by definition will be drug free.

To aid my choice of birth the hospital midwife gave me a leaflet for a breathing, relaxation class (which has some yoga in it too) run locally and during the day for two hours once a week. The most important element of this class is that it will teach me how to use different breathing and relaxation techniques during labour. In my mind this is essential for a natural home birth.

Bearing in mind other pregnant employees in the company not only have time off (for similar non hospital appointments) and have it paid as well but as it is at your line managers discretion and because my boss thinks this is un-necessary she said I can't go !!!

I am asking for no favours, I only asked that I work my full work hours around the two hour class. Work will not lose out at all, I will do the same amount of work that I have always done.

Yesterday I was forced into a meeting by the Director and Line manager and the director of the HR department (who was a nice lady and seemed quite shocked at the rudeness of the other two women)

They spent two hours telling me that I 'have an attitude' and that I 'can't decide when I go off on maternity leave' !!!! So work intend on telling me when I can go off and have my baby !!!

I need to learn how to use breathing and relaxation techniques even the HR lady agreed that was necessary but the Director just lost it getting more and more illogically and nasty.

I held my own at the meeting as I was so angry and frustrated but the moment I got home and spoke to my mum on the phone I was weeping uncontrollable.

I am off to the doctors next week to see if they can help me. I can’t sleep for worrying about what they will say on Monday and my headaches are getting worse, I just want to go back to being happy and I don’t understand why these women are so unwilling to be nice.

Why are they being so nasty - I am contracted to work 37 hours between 8am and 7pm Monday to Friday (as longs as I work core hours, I can work the hours of my choice)

Why does it matter to them WHICH 37 hours I work, I work on my own and see the Director maybe one a fortnight and my line manager perhaps once a week - Why prevent me from getting the lessons I need !?!

And the punch line – I work for the ‘caring’ NHS (The UK’s National Health Care Government Funded Company) which are meant to be very understanding about pregnant ladies.

For a more full rant look at \link{http://www.babieseverywhere.com/serendipity/archives/81-Bastards.html#top\My Blog Entry}

What should I do now, I need this classes ?

are you actually employed by the nhs? shocking way to treat anyone

I'm by no means an expert, but I thought that your employer was obliged by law to give you time off for ante-natal care. When I booked NHS ante-natal classes, that's certainly what the midwife told me. What if, for example, you needed regular scans / blood tests / appointments with a consultant (as I do, in theory)? On a busy day, you can spend a whole afternoon waiting for your 2.30 appointment. How this applies to a regular class, I'm not sure.

I guess you need to discuss when you start maternity leave, but the biggest decider (surely) is your due date. Over which they have no control.

Like any other employment situation, I would suggest you document everything. Transfer emails to a home account (or disk, if you don't have work internet access). If you have a meeting, put in writing / email what your understanding of the conclusions were and ask for agreement in writing / by email.

Can you join a union? Most unions, I believe, have a six month moratorium on legal support, but you would be able to access it if / when you return from maternity leave, if they're playing silly buggers then.

Can you speak to the HR woman on her own? They should be able to discuss personnel issues in confidence.

The fact that it's the caring sharing NHS doesn't surprise me. I knew a group of people who took their employer to tribunal once for illegal changes to their contracts, constructive dismissal etc. They worked for the Citizens' Advice Bureau...

Good luck.

Oh, you poor thing. I would ask to have a meeting with the HR director.

I have loads of sympathy for you - I worked for an evil woman in her late 50s (fortunately I left before I became pregnant) - she had a massive go at me for being one minute late two days before I went into hospital for major surgery... Some people are just not human.

You're allowed time off for antenatal appointments and I'm sure you can get your GP or midwife to write to say these classes are essential.

Also, you can absolutely decide when you go on mat leave. And if things get really bad, your GP can sign you off with stress before then. But that's probably not the way to go - unless you don't plan on going back after you've had the baby?

RZ, the evil woman I worked for used to be a CAB manager (though I didn't work for them - it was for a charity - a benevolent fund, no less - ha ha ha!) - it's very common to be evil and work for the CAB IME...

Do you think the doctor would put something in writing for me ? That would be great and might help my case.

I am planning to talk to the HR lady next week but I don't know what to say or what to ask.

I actually like the work I do and the people I work with day to day, I was planning on going back to work after my baby but now I can't even face going in Monday morning :(

But my main concern is how unreasonable are they going to get in the future, what going to happen when I start needing favours i.e. when my child is sick and I have to go and pick them up from nursery early etc. What if my pregnancy means I can't do 100% of the work I do now, what are they going to do.

I really didn't expect any issues at all in working by full hours around a post-natal class. :(

Agree. You need to do several things:

Keep calm, not always easy but you can keep the moral high ground
Document everything and insist on HR being involved if possible
This sounds like blatant discrimination, sympathies.

Don't worry about the future yet. Easier said than done I know. They ought to be disciplined, maybe they won't be there when you go back, who knows?

This is why you need to nip this in the bud - if they're this unreasonable now, they're hardly going to get more reasonable.

I've often found women of this age with no children to be awkward cusses to work with - and bastard lazy to boot. Also they can be jealous they've not got children - it's a volatile mix of pre-menopausal hormones and no mistake

What I'd do is take a list of your current concerns to the HR manager and talk them through. Make sure you get across how much you enjoy your job, but that these women are being illegally obstructive - they need to know how serious this is and that they risk leaving themselves open to legal proceedings in the future.

I would check your mat. policy - I work for the NHS, and I know for a fact that you are allowed time off for antenatal classes! I'd also document everything, and arrange a meeting with HR ASAP. Also - join the Union as a matter of urgency. Good luck.

I work for the NHS and have been treated badly over family issues in the past.As you say, policy often states that it is at your managers discretion, however I got my line manager disiplined as he was going against hospital policy.
In my case I wrote directly to the chief executive of my trust and told him that his policies stank.A very high up,HR person got involved and had my manager "retrained".
I now belong to Unison,the biggest NHS union, they are very good, I'm sure they would be able to sort this out for you.If your not a member, couldn't you write to your chief exec.

I also work for the NHS and had similar problem, you should have had a pack through from HR, and it is part of your contract that you are entitled to take as PAID much time of as you need for any antenatle class including relaxation and exercise!!!!!!
I asked my boss for a couple of hours to go to a antenatal class he implied that I was skiving and that it wasnt really appropriate for a nurse to need antenatal classes, surely I knew where the baby came out!!!!

I then proceeded to book every class I could, i did an exerciese class aquanatal smimming yaga breathing, the LOT. I forwared a copy of the contact to him and said if had a problem with it HR could speak to me through my union. I aslo banded a few words about like post natal depression and pre natal stress and he soon got the message and backed off and piped down!

I do remeber bieing so emotional the first time though, I actualy felt like mywhole world was wrong, then the next day it was something else, hormones really dont help you at this stage!

Hope things work out for you!!

why is it that so many employers are such shits when it comes to pregant employees, I totally understand where u r coming from and SO understand how u r feeling. Had and still am having same issues as yourself. I agree with all the posts, get it all documented and keep as many notes re everything as u can. YOU decide when you go on maternity leave, u r also entitled to ANY anti natal time off (subject to it being relevant and reasonable) contact CAB or ACAS for some advice - which i wish I had done through my pregnancy - now having more and more issues with employer. I wish u lots of luck and keep your chin up, this is a really emotional time 4 u and you really dont need the added stress of yr employer. x

Thanks for all the supportive posts.

I'm going to talk to my doctor and the HR director and if I get no joy, I will speak to CAB.

I'm not a member of the union but I might join up.

And I agree with you hunkermunker, I know my line manager wanted kids but her husband didn't and I'm 100% sure she is green that I am having children and I suspect the Director is in a similar situation.

But they should not take their fustrations out on me :(

Try applying under the \link{http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/individual/flexible-pl516.htm\flexible working legislation}, it is a formal process where they will have to respond to you in writing as to their reasons for blocking your request. In my experience people are very reluctant to put pen to paper and usually capitulate.

shrivelled up old nasty prunes

Twiglett, you made me laugh and that IS very helpful to me at the moment, makes me forget my headaches.

The HR Director was in the meeting with all relevent policies but my Director and Line Manager don't want me to reduce my work hours as there is too much work since my Line Manager went part time to four days (to spend more time at her second house in Italy, Europe) and the Director decider not to recruit to the 2.5 days per week assistant post who should be working for me.

Because of those two factors they can't let me reduce my hours even if I wanted too. However I am more than happy to work my full hours around this class, if they will let me :(

Babies everywhere, I had similar experiences during my pregnancy with a bullying female manager in her 50's - I let it go and said nothing as I was so tired and hormonal. Unfortunately when I returned to work after maternity leave it got worse. In the end I got so fed up I went to my union and was advised to put in writing what had happened (I had copies of e mails sent home whilst I was on maternity leave saying what a nuisance I was for getting pregnant and how much work it had caused her and everyone else)I took it to a senior manager (male, 3 kids). He was really lovely and was shocked that all this had been going on and said I should have said something earlier. I have been treated very well ever since and would strongly advise that you speak to a union rep as from my experience these horrid people thrive on bullying and making you feel a nuisance during an already difficult time. Looking back I really wish I had stood up for myself sooner but I know that it is hard to do when you already feel tired and emotional. Good luck.

I am not 100% sure you would need to check properly. But it sounds like they are being disciminatory under the discrimination at work act. You should suffer no detriment whilst being pregnant at work. Also, someone please correct me if I am wrong, under the H&S act, your company should do a risk assessment once you have informed them of your pregnancy, to assess whether your duties are safe to be carried out whilst pg. Good Luck. Join the Union. They will back you to hilt, from what you are saying. These people should not be treating you like this.

Raise it formally with HR, check your rights on tiger.gov.uk/dti site and go informed. Sounds like bullying to me and I seem to remember the NHS launched an anti-bullying campaign to combat absenteeism due to stress so HR should be on alert for that.

atrocious behaviour on their part, I'm raging.

I managed to get this morning off as annual leave to attend the first breathing and relaxation class, after being denied annual leave twice before.

But yesterday I took another manager in to my line manager with me and said I didn't think it was reasonable to refuse me annual leave because I am using the time to attend a post-natal class. She backed down but I had to send an email to her cc'd to my director saying that I understood this was a one off... I was cross but I needed this time off so I agreed.

She has flattely refused to allow me to book another half day holiday next week.. but I don't understand surely I am still allowed to use my annual leave any which way I like !!!

Why does it matter to them if I am willing to use my annual leave to attend these classes, I just feel they are determined to stop me attending these classes by hook or by crook.

I went to see my doctor today, she was lovely and understanding and has agreed to write me a letter saying she 'recommends' that I do the breathing course. She couldn't understand my line managers and directors attitude.

When I got into work I spent 30 minutes talking to another HR lady who off the record said how surprised she was at the attitude I was getting especially as pregnant women are a no go when it comes to refusing time off etc. She said work have to let me do anything my doctor 'recommends'.

So I left work early today as my headaches are still bad and I have decided that until my headaches go away I'm signing myself off work. Certainly for tomorrow and we'll see how it goes.

I will take in/post the doctors letter to HR and today's HR lady is confident that something can be sorted out.

So basically I am going to stay home and relax until my baby and I feel better and let HR fight it out with my line manager and Director about the classes.

Fingers crossed that this is all resolved very soon.

You don't have to take it as annual leave! You are entitled to go to your antenatal classes and be paid as if you were still at work!

Just give them notice in writing that you are going to X class at Y time on Z date, keep a copy for your records, and go to your class!

And seriously you need to go over these vile old bitches' heads, go to their manager. They are not allowed to behave like this. Go to CAB, get your union involved, see a solicitor, they are NOT allowed to deny your antenatal care!

This is awful BE. I work in the NHS and my manager would never behave like this, and nor would I to my staff. Can you go higher than your Director to get this sorted?

Anyone watching this thread - BE is having the rest of this week off work sick. She seems much brighter this morning

BE I am off home now as dd's nursery has just called (just as I thought they would).

Call me if you need anything or want to chat.

Will be on MN later anyway so if you're about we'll chat on here