part time discrimination - fed up with it!

[pashmina]

I work in sales, doing the same work I've been doing for over 10 years, after dd2 i went back part time, on pro rata pay (3/5ths), but full time target. I do well, better than most of my (male) colleauges, and now they want to effectively pro rata my commission!! surely thats sexual discrimination...and advise please? oh, and they want to drop my car allowance down by 2/5ths too.

Pashmina, more info please.

1. Take it the car allowance is for a car, not transport?
2. How are they effectively pro-rata-ing your commission? I mean, what calculation are they using? Is it that you would normally get, say, 15% on all sales you make, but under pro-rata rules it is reduced to say 10% on all sales? So you are effectively getting less for your work than your f/t collegues?
3. What have they said/done that links it to your p/t ness? (for info really-probably still sd)

Does sound like sexual discrimination tho.

I think they've chosen a bad time to do it pashmina. It was on the news this morning that a court case had been won which sets a precedent that it is now illegal to discriminate against part-timers.

Give us a bit more of an explanation of how your comission works like filyjonk says and we will see what we think.

I am the only part timer in a big company (they do value me apparently). My car allowance is because i opted out of comapny car scheme, and they have been paying me the full amount. holidays are prorata which is fine. my salary is way more than my coleagues if I was full time, because I was taken on when my company was taken over, and they have to continue with my basic salary. my commision is not straight forward. The more you earn, the higher your sales target is. So, they are now calculating my commision based on what my full time pay would be and this means that I earn less commision.

I suppose its a bit of backward sexual discrimination, as I do get more than my male colleagues on my basic salary, but it doesn't seem fair that my target is the same, but I get less commsision JUST because I am part time.

Bozza, what newspaper has details of the court case?

Only thing I can add to is the car - my dh works 80% and as an engineer he is probably only ptimer at his level in the company. They weren'tsure how to handle the car but in the end agreed to 100% car allowance, on the grounds that he either needed it or he didn't, and couldn't very well be given 80% of a car! He has opted for the money at the moment but perhaps now is the time for you to opt into getting the car instead!

Its illegal anyway, Bozza! Indirect sex discrimination. Also there are rules governing equal treatment of part time workers.

Aaarg, pashmina, my head is hurting with that! Basically, am I right in saying:

1. There is no equivalent worker to you who is full time? Ie with same terms, conditions, pay etc but full time hours?
2. Company car scheme-tricky. My instinct is that it should not be pro-rata'd as it presumably would not be had you not opted out, and I assume others who opt out get it in full...but thats tricky, not sure.
3. Re the sales target.

"The more you earn, the higher your sales target is. So, they are now calculating my commision based on what my full time pay would be and this means that I earn less commision. "

The trouble is I'm reading this as "people at higher grades get less commission". In which case...I think they're acting legally tbh. Or is it more complex?

Does the company have any history at all of employing part-timers, or a code of conduct, or anything?

Oh and-sorry, assume your target is pro-rata? Surely you're not expected to produce the same volume of work as a full timer? That would be discrimination.

Its illegal anyway, Bozza! Indirect sex discrimination. Also there are rules governing equal treatment of part time workers.

Aaarg, pashmina, my head is hurting with that! Basically, am I right in saying:

1. There is no equivalent worker to you who is full time? Ie with same terms, conditions, pay etc but full time hours?
2. Company car scheme-tricky. My instinct is that it should not be pro-rata'd as it presumably would not be had you not opted out, and I assume others who opt out get it in full...but thats tricky, not sure.
3. Re the sales target.

"The more you earn, the higher your sales target is. So, they are now calculating my commision based on what my full time pay would be and this means that I earn less commision. "

The trouble is I'm reading this as "people at higher grades get less commission". In which case...I think they're acting legally tbh. Or is it more complex?

Does the company have any history at all of employing part-timers, or a code of conduct, or anything?

Oh and-sorry, assume your target is pro-rata? Surely you're not expected to produce the same volume of work as a full timer? That would be discrimination.

filyjonk, we have a very complicated commision scheme...

I earn a higher basic because the company they took over paid better, and they have to keep me on the same basic.

My taget is the same as most of my colleagues, and is higher than some.

I am the only part timer in my role.

Up until recently, my commission was being worked out based on what my full time pay would be, and they incresed my target by 2/5ths, as this seemed the fair thing to do. (even though the increased target would be 2/5ths higher than anyone else if I was full time!

They now want to work it out based on what my full time pay would be, and use my actual target. because my pay is at a higher level than anyone else, this means I earn hardly any commision.

I have said I am happy to accept it being worked out on what I actually recieve, and what I am actually targeted, which I think is fair.

I only cost them 3/5ths, but I produce full time business levels. Surely its unfair to pay me less just becauseb I am part time. Its not my fault they pay everybody else so badly, perhaps they should ask for pay rises!

my head hurts now!!
Until now,

why increase your target by 2/5?

is there no one else from the original company still employed?

You're producing f/t business levels. Are you, in effect, being required to be 130% ish more productive than anyone else?

And most importantly atm, is there a recognised union in your workplace + can you join? You need detailed advice, they seem to be changing your contract + you are in danger of accepting by just going along with it. Which is you scuppered at tribunal (and threat of going to tribunal is your leverage)

there is nobody left doing my role, on my salary from the previous company.

As I am the only part timer, there is nobody else fighting this case.

we don't have a union, so I have decided to wait until monday, they have promised me a decision then, and I am off until then anyway. I will then put in writing my arguement and why I am unhappy with the current situation, and wait and see what happens.

I was in the same position exactly a year ago, and they agreed to pro rata the target which kept me happy, so (I am not sure why we are back in the same position again.

everytime I complain, they tell me my basic is too high anyway.

if I don't get a favourable decision, how do i take it to a tribunal?

Ok, you really need someone to sit down with you and look at all your letters, etc going back a couple of years, ask you about 300 questions etc. Its not a straightforward one. You can join a union of your choice if none are recognised by your firm. The union can give advice and also has solicitors who will act for you (free). Or you could go to a solicitor yourself but you'd have to pay. Or an advice centre-CAB/lawcentre might help, but they would probably give only limited advice while you're employed.

But, and this is very important, just so you know you must start tribunal action within 3 months of the discrimination. Otherwise it'll be thrown out.

Ultimately you can take yourself off and start a tribunal yourself. You need to fill in a form called an ET1 (you can do this online as I recall?). But I really don't advise that, your case is way too complex.

Best of luck.

Ooooh Bozza - link to newspaper article please! Am going tribunal and am interested in this.

Apologies for hijack pashmina - filyjonk is spot on from what i know

thank you so much for the advise, I had a sleepless night last night just running it all through my head. If they stick to their guns, I will earn £12000 less in a 12 month period, for bringing in the same amount of business for the company....just because I work part time, obviuosly it would not be any incentive for me to do my job well (I am generally way ahead of the rest of my team), I could just sit back, do the bare minimum and see how long it takes for them to sack me!!

I am going to wait until monday, I have given them food for thought, and if there is no resolution, I will put it in writing, and then see a solicitor.

I would be really interested to hear about anybody else who has been discriminated against because they work part time?? Might have to start a new link though.

Just an update - company have decided that they will pay me based on my actual salary (not Pro rata) and my actual target. very happy with this!! this is more or less what has been happening for the past 4 years anyway....I am wondering if the plan was to try to get me to go back full time, now my dd's have started school. No Way!!