Constructive Dismissal - comments on this one!! Part one

[Putthatbookdown]

So many people on here have asked if they can claim CD and been told they will not win-which is right.Anyway I thought I would give you a taster of a real CD so then people can see for themselves and hopefully assist. I have used C for the complainant. This is a b and h claim:.It begins with bullying and ends in harrassment. It is truly unbelievable what can happen to people. Incredible.
Par

are we to presume you are the R then?

C joins ABC school as a temp.C is female and has the highest qualification ( apart from those in Management) Not many have this qual -anywhere.School advertises to clients it only employs the highest quals etc etc A joins the school :he is male, does not hold the qual but is made permanaent .This is queried "Well, he is Management material"He struggles with the course, is helped and then pisses off Never goes into management. Some promotions come up: they are given according to length of service (and qual): all are male.C is made permanent and is v good. (leave now) Some specialist posts come up; they are all given to males regardless of length of service.One male is off for 6/7 months with depression and given it "to cheer him up" C goes on secondemt in the specialism, does well and is ignored_apart from a nickname which she seems to have acquired. One winter C is signed off for 2 weeks with tiredness- the boss turns up uninvited at her house and is not happy.(C has now bought a house so roped in)

any more?

c gets good appraisals.Another promotion comes up it is given to another male.C is disheartened and does not know why she is being sidelined again.C has 2 friends on the staff -the rest are unfriendly. 2 years later C is in some pros outside work The boss takes her into the office and notes C appears v pale .This is noted . Now the employer has a very detailed disciplinary procedure inthe contract with a staff rep to assist at every stage: even more the Staff rep can have kind of union powers i,e gathering other staff to support There are many stages before things are "exhausted" The boss starts yelling and screaming. C leaves her office asap as the boss does not seem capable of dealing with this. Some weeks later the boss hauls her in-your work is not good enough .Unknown to C these "meetings" are formal One day the boss stops c in the corridor and tells C about her problems. The term comes to an end -boss is yelling and we are not pleased with your work e.g you are a bore Charming C is wondering why she might not be given the same traetment as M when he had problems. It turns out that these yellings etc are an Oral warning. The next term passes with c doing well . This is all ignored of course.
Towards the end of the term c is tapped on the shoulder and ordered into the office C does not want to go due to the yelling etc The boss has been informed from else where c has been in trouble outside work C is now feeling ill .Boss is in a terrible state. C has a friend in Management elsewhere and a solicitor friend . This matter is irrelvant as far as the work is concerned .The boss pulls her in again. C asks for more info (bearing in mind the boss did not inestigate before) Boss is not willing to investigate and saying "I thought it was xyz " it wasn't . C comes into work and finds a stage 2 warning in her pig hole. As she did not know she already had a first stage one she is fedup. C calls the Staff Rep, People outside are now concerned as to c's health and ill treatment. Inturns out that the boss has been informed (by elsewhere) that the trouble outside is of no relevance but the boss has overidden this .She cannot do this.
The Staff rep accompanies c to a meeting for clarification. The boss has held the fortnight off 2 years ago against C and is disciplining her due to this.Staff rep explains C had some probs etc. The SR says I just wanr to calm things down etc C is getting quite ill . Wants to avoid the boss at all costs. C is then assigned the most difficut class ; C hauled into the office again- she takes the Rep c tells the Rep she wants a grievance - the Rep nearly falls off his chair

One day the Rep just appears at C's house without prior notice -he never has any contact outside work Leave the job and get out of the profession The boss then observes C with the difficult class and provides damning feedback . She has already threatened c with her job so the threat is very real C tells the rep she is displeased with her treatment (oh C has been given another warning in the meantime ) C decides to resign .One day a medically qual friend is at her house: sees an injury . management friend says you have been harrassed .
SR appears again at the house- c not too happy about this. A relative is there: the SR does not have permission . He tells the relative C has been nothing but trouble these past 2 years The relative has been vaguely aware of things going on but is now confused by this He then says But we want c to come into the school and see us !!!! This lot are b cheeky as well.Who would have the finance to do this?. meanwhile the boss has refused to give a reference for C to find another job in the area . Later c is assaulted Sr unwilling to help.These are just the main facts . This is CD An employee would never dream of this happening to them. Here the employee has been set up to fail with the intention of harming her future prospects as well. The employee is unable to even enter the premises of the employer as the employer has been so unpleasant This is CD

Eek , sorry to be pedantic but could you paragraph the story to break it up a bit?

Very difficult to follow & not very factual could you stick to facts and make sure the terminology is consistant, ie Boss/employer?

It might be very useful to someone !

Have you won a case for CD?

Could you explain this bit please?

" He then says But we want c to come into the school and see us !!!! This lot are b cheeky as well.Who would have the finance to do this?"

Is C still working there or not? Why does finance come into it? This is very confusing.

Um.

Well, I am not sure if you want advice or just to rant. But you will need to repost with proper grammar, sticking to the facts, and with less emotive comments.

From What I can gather the gist is:-

1. Better qualified but not promoted. Males promoted above her
2. Personal problems outside work and signed off sick 2 weeks (which year??)
3. Whilst off sick visited at home by boss and presumably felt pressurised because of this
4. Unliked at work and told not mgmt material, despite good appraisals
5. More problems outside of work 2 years on. Boss calls a meeting starts discussing these problems. Does not end well. Further meeting held 2 weeks later and told work is not good enough. This meeting apparently 'formal', but not documented (and possibly not indicated) at the time.
6. Oral warning allegedly given in public, with no following of disciplinary procedure and no indication that this was a formal oral warning at the time
7. More problems outside of work and claimant allegedly 'in trouble' outside the workplace because of this. Claimant ordered into office but (?) too scared to go to meeting (?). A further meeting called which claimant attends where boss ignores her side of the story about what happened. This is followed by stage 2 warning even though standard disciplinary process not followed
8. Asks for Rep to help sort it out, and puts in a grievance which Rep appears to think unwise. Rep then appears at house and advocates that claimant simply leave the role to avoid further issues
9. Claimant given worst class to teach and is given very poor appraisal
10. Claimant resigns
11. Injury (??) noted by relative (?? what's this bit about??)
12. Rep turns up at house (??Why??) and tells 3rd party that claimant was a pain at work for last 2 years.
13. Headmaster refuses to supply reference
14. Claimant is then assaulted (?? by whom??). Rep refuses to get involved

Is that all the salient points?

If so, then I would say that due process appears not to have been followed for sure, but would have a number of questions:-

1. Who carried out the physical assaults and is there any independent confirmation that assaults took place? What were the assaults? Were GP or police involved and if not, why not?
2. What was happening outside of school? Three different periods of 'trouble' are mentioned. A tribunal would need to know the nature to be able to rule if Boss should have questioned claimant (eg bringing school into disrepute)
3. Why was the claimant not promoted (as in what reasons were given at the time)? Inability to get on with other staff members would be a factor that can be taken into account.
4. When claimant received formal warnings did she put in appeals at the time? Did she pt in the grievance she mentioned to rep and how was it dealt with at the time? did she put in a grievance at any time when other people were promoted above her?

Can we have part two now?

Great responses Useful.Yes, it is important to note down things in a logical factual point by point format (with good grammar!)It can be hard however but the less emotional the better : hence a good rep is important from both the employer and employee point of view Yes you can rep yourself Lawyers cost and will often only act when there is a loss plus they may not have much lnowledge of your industry Finance :most people in a job for a while rely on it for rent etc when you resign you have no money. It goes quickly Here the employee had no money/job. Many employers want to remain on reasonable terms with their committed staff when they leave Sacking a loyal employee is hard . Here the SR expected the employee AND THEIR FAMILY to put any feelings aside and visit the ex-employers premises/staff after they had left. One feature of CD is that this is not possible as the employer has made it too unpleasant for this to happen. Anyway when a person has just resigned they will need to sort themselves out first.The contract is with the employee not the employee.s family.The Staff Rep wanted to persuade the family that the school had done nothing wrong and asked the family to get the employee to visit them etc

1. Have you/C won a case for CD?

1. Can you clarify the points we asked you to?

1. Can you use paragraphs to make your posts easier to read?

Putthatbookdown, if this is you, then I hope you have some good RL support, because your posts seem quite distressed.

(I mean "if this thread is about you as the employee who has been CD")

Yes, CD was proven No I am not distressed I am just trying to show what it is like so people can see the things involved
My mission is to help others. CD can be worth a lot of money especially if it is a large company and if the claim is justified you will need the dosh, Sometimes you may lose your career even your health as well .

Well, then, I hope that you can take the advice of others on this thread, and break your story into more manageable chunks. Perhaps a more 'timeline' approach would be helpful to illustrate your case. Because right now, it is almost incoherent, and if you want to help others, they will need to be able to understand your story

Yes I agree I just wanted initial reactions and also to provoke some questions.

The posterStillSquiffy with the neatly numbered points was really good; the questions shes\he asks are very relevant in fact basic to the whole thing. I hope other people take note of the very relevant points made.
The idea behind all this is preparation: getting witnesses can be hard as the whole idea is to isolate the victim so that he/she becomes helpless

Jesus.

Good luck with it all. I haven't the patience to unravel the enigma.

Ummm, yes, putthatbookdown, but she only did that because she was trying to make sense of your story,a it was so confused.

Yes, I wll address the points properly in a minute The confusion arose as those at the Establishment were unable to do their jobs!!! The whole place was well poorly managed . Once you realise this you are on the way to winnng!!

My head is spinning

No, the confusion was in the fact that you haven't communicated clearly in your post. I'm sure you have a useful story to tell, but it is a complete garbled rant at the moment.