3 kids, reduced hours declined. What's next?

[Susemyoli]

I have 3 kids aged 6, 3 and 9 months and will be soon going back to work. My job pre-maternity leave was 28 hours a week, 4 days a week. I usually reduce my working hours to 16 hours/week when I come back from maternity and increase them slowly to getting both myself and the kids used to. I have a long commute of 3-4 hours/day on a good day, which can be 5 hours on a bad day. At the moment I cannot afford to have a childminder and nursery arrangement for all. My application for reduced hours has been refused by my boss's boss. So my boss just clearly washed his hands off. My application was sub,itted on the 22/05 and yesterday on the 18/06 it has been refused. Do I get a meeting? This is carrying beyond the 28 days policy. The job sucks, but it gives me money to sustain my family. Need some help and comfort please!

I'm no expert but thought that they had to give good business reasons why it wouldn't work for them. Have they done this?

I really feel that with that commute you may be better finding another role? You could offer a local employer more hours on that basis.

Sorry your employer has not been flexible though. I feel it's just the luck of the draw and company culture and bosses personalities seem to be the main deciding factor for many mums and their chance of flexible working.

You can appeal or accept the position or leave.

I've had the same problem. They need to acknowledge receipt of your application, & then if they agree, they should give you written acceptance within 28 days. If they do not agree, they need to call you to a meeting to discuss the case, & give clear business reasons as to why it was refused. You should then be given the choice to work to a compromise if can be accommodated. If they can demonstrate a clear reason why not, they are within their rights to decline. It had to be quite extreme why though. They should then provide you with all the procedures for an appeal.

I have gone through the mill myself & they were threatening me with a demotion if I wanted reduced hours. Go on the direct.gov website. That is very helpful

I hope you can work to a resolution soon. I know how stressful it can be

susemyoli the law says that you should be given proper reasons for the refusal, it seems to me like a reasonable request and antagony is right they must have a valid business reason to refuse your application. Is your work very specialised? Is it because they can't get the cover needed to do the work? Is there another colleague who would want some extra hours? Sometimes it's best to approach the boss with a solution that way it's more difficult for him to say no. What about your HR department how do they normally like these requests to be handled ? Best of luck with this one I always find these battles very stressful x

Sympathy. I hope you find a way to make things work for you. If it was a formal flexible working application then they do need to stick to the time lines - but ultimately they hold all the cards. It doesn't sound terribly sustainable for you given the long commute. I would plan an exit.

ANTagony he said that I am too senior to be working so little hours and I should be leading teams rather than working so little. So this is their business reasoning. I work in a big architectural company, they should have plenty of people to cover for me.
BettyandDon the commute is a killer, but this is the only job that would allow me to work 4 days a week. All jobs out there are full time. Jobs around here are really boring and mind numbing.
hairytale I have asked HR to submit 24 hours in 3 days. She suggested the normal 22.5 in 3 days, but for half an hour a day, I think I can stretch it a bit. I know if my contract is 16 hours I am going to work 20-24, when I was working 28 hours I had weeks with 43+ hours/week. Got refused time off lieu because I didn't come in on weekends. This is why I put in 24 hours so it should cover for the overtime and I am going to get paid for it.
They say that technically because I have asked for 24hours/week, this is a new application so it's going to take another 28 days. The government website is not clear about it. I thought they should organise a meeting for me instead.
lovesteaandcake I would even consider a demotion. They haven't given any pay rise for the past 4 years so for me working my flexible hours with all the overtime I do, is like employing senior staff with a pay cut full time.
Boggler, I would like to approach him, but he is at the right top of the company. I don't even know him as he has recently joined the company. It is so frustrating as I don't have any direct contact with him and all communication is through a third party, the person in HR.
Blackswan I know they hold the cards. This government flexible hours application is a farce. They can always make up their reasons and make excuses. Problem is they advertise themselves as a good employer who have adhered and taken seriously the 50 50 women campain. This RIBA campain sets the targets to reach 50 50 balance between women and men in the workplace by 2020.
www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/daily-news/50-50-campaign-for-equality-launches/8607070.article
This makes me laugh.

susemyoli I just successfully appealed against my flex working request refusal on return from mat leave. I've just posted more details to another post on this topic with more details. But basically I would give workingfamilies.org.uk a call and/or Babylaw who give 30 min free consultation for some advice. Have they quoted their business reasons? If you appeal and address these then you may have a good case for taking it further or push them into reconsidering which happened for me. Good luck.

Were you in the same position after your last period of Maternity leave? Surely if there is precedence, and they have not previously mentioned any problems that it caused, then they cannot use that as a valid business reason.

Bennybenbear thank you so much, I'll have a look. I have re-submitted my form and HR said that technically this is another application and it will take up to 28 days for them to get back to me.
GwennieF in all my previous pregnancies I have come back to work at 16 hours a week, only to increase it just a couple of months later. I have done the same for the second coming back to work in October 2009 with 16 hours/week increased to 20 in January, 24hrs in April and 28 hrs/week in July (?) I have a case, unless the argue that in the last 3 years (technically speakinig 2 years because of the maternity break) I've all suddendly bagged tons of experience.
Crumpetnipple4charlotte, well, if I try finding work around here, it is going to be difficult. Not many practises around here, on top of having to work full time and probably getting a pay cut because it's not in the city. And still having to fork out the full childcare bill because if I work full time this is going to be high!

Now might not be the best time for it, but have you considered working for yourself?

Bearmur yes I did. But ultimately I still like my job. I trained for 10 years to get where I am and I don't feel like starting something new unless absolutely necessary. Working part-time gives me continuity in my training. I hate to have a big career hole of 3-4 years waiting for my kids to be all at school. On the other side I did consider giving up and be a stay at home mum because I know I would miss them so much! To me, the possibility to work part-time would give me the best of both worlds. If this fails, well, I'll have to really consider carefully setting up my own business.

The government flex working scheme is a farce when it comes to how it's applied by most employers - I completely agree. It's actually harmful to women as it gives the impression that they can have a balanced career/family life when that's a great big myth for the majority of women. Large companies are exceptional at telling women on the way in that they are joining the kind of firm where hard work earns them the right to flexibility - just don't ask them to make good on that promise.

I've taken the stance now that my career is on hold whilst I'm having babies. No matter of flexibility in working hours can make up for me not being there at times & missing out. It sucks really. But put up against my career on my children, I'm fortunate enough to be able to make a choice. I appreciate for a lot of women it's a matter of have to, & that must be hard.