Please help appeal hearing for flex working this week!

[bennybenbear]

I have my appeal hearing for my flexible working request which was initially refused this week sometime. Has anyone else had any experience of this as I'd like to know what to expect?
Also I would like to take someone with me but not sure who would be best.

The thing you will need to focus on (without seeming like the awkward squad) is why the reasons for turning down the request are either wrong (unlikely) or outweighed by the benefits from changing the arrangements. These must be business arrangements - not just how much you want it (that's taken as read).

Without the reasons they have given you, it's hard to give more advice, but a common reason for refusal (which invariably sticks, without detailed evidence) is impact on other staff (increased hours for them, and/or increased costs to the firm if other staff have to be paid overtime to make up hours). Reasons which should not stick are "we've always done it like this", or coverage required for core hours when those hours are not justified by business need.

Thanks Edith for your advice. I've requested to maintain my full time hours but do them over 4 days rather than 5 and work from home on a Friday. The main reasons for refusal are that I have a customer facing role and that these hours are congruent with colleagues and I am required to have occasional face to face meetings.
My role is customer facing but these are internal 'customers' and it is more strategic rather than day to day face to face, ie I plan campaigns and events etc. Much of my communication is done by email or over the Internet. All my meetings are preplanned so could be arranged for when I am in the office. I will be fully contactable by email and phone on Thursday's at home and can be on Fridays. I have also said that where there are occasions which only thursday or Friday is possible for a meeting/event I would be happy to accommodate even on relatively short notice.

My role included a lot of strategy and material development/report writing which is always harder in an open plan office anyway and we are soon moving offices and going to a hot desk system.

Behind the scenes the main manager responsible is totally against any flexibility whatsoever as they have had people take advantage in the past so a precedent is not wanted now, particularly the working from home.

So that's 3 days in the office and one at home?

They might be able to make a case for working every day when your customers are working (and from your pov, it can all too easily become working 5 days for 4 days' pay). Is there any possibility of negotiating a more flexible arrangement, but on all 5 days? I sounds as if you have a strong case in demonstrating how most of the work can be done in locations other than the office. It's less clear, from pov of your internal customers, how often they may need you face to face at short notice, or how important it is to the business that this need is met even if it happens only rarely.

My flexible working hours request was also declined and last month I returned to work when baby was 4 months, they requested I resume normal hours of 9am to 6pm. Although most days I work 8.30 am - 6.30pm. This morning after weeks of 5am starts to my day and rushed evenings with baby as well as lengthy journeys to and from the childminder I collapsed on the train. Please put stand your ground - think carefully about how you propose to ensure you will remain a valuable employee for yours and your childs own benefit.

Oh luv poor you, that's awful. I hope you're ok and I hope you can get your employers to change their mind.

Edith my job isn't critical for business really, well it is but nothing that can't wait 2 days. They also suggested 4 days part time in my initial meeting and I wouldn't have any cover. I feel what I have suggested is better to meet customer demands (which are for content rather than face to face liaison mostly) as fulltime hours would enable me do more. Working from home one day as well would also enable ms to be more productive than in the large office. Most colleagues ring or email me even if they are just next door!

Hi Benny - I went through this about 18 months ago. My job sounds rather different to yours but I found the Direct.gov website absolutely brilliant.

From memory (and this may have changed), they can only turn down flexible working requests on 8 different grounds and they have to specify which ones in any refusal. The only one they really could have got me on were the cost implications (I have moved up to the NW and my office is in London so I have to catch the train a couple of times a month) but it sounds like they are trying to get you on the customer-facing bit of your job.

Anyway, in a way I was lucky because my vindictive ex-boss (who herself was wfh from Belfast! ) wrote a refusal letter that wasn't based on any formal reasons but a lot of hearsay and what other people did, how much they cost etc etc. I was able to write an 11-page rebuttal of all her points in writing which formed the basis of my appeal.

I could go on but obviously I don't know your situation. The appeal meeting was rather charged but it was carried out (as per the rules, again see the Direct.gov website) by an independent Director with HR sitting in to observe and I took a manager from another team i.e. someone I didn't work with but who I vaguely knew was fair and good to her staff. I briefed her fully beforehand but she was basically there to take notes for me as I didn't want to have to make sure I was getting everything down or anything was being twisted. We had a quick debrief afterwards as well so that what I thought had been said had (or not).

Here are some pages you may need, if you haven't seen them already. My tip is to be as completely prepared as possible and try to anticipate their sticking points. They should have given you something in writing to work with. They also have to give you 14 days for the appeal meeting and you have to agree to the date so don't let them pull you in at a minute's notice, make sure you're ready and your rep/friend.

Dealing with the outcome of your application www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Flexibleworking/DG_171775

The important info for Employers on refusing a request (you may be able to get them on a technical basis if they haven't followed this)
www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1097377943&r.l1=1073858787&r.l2=1073858926&r.l3=1073931239&r.s=sc&type=RESOURCES

Info for Employers on an employee's appeal
www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1081563827&r.l1=1073858787&r.l2=1073858926&r.l3=1073931239&r.s=sc&type=RESOURCES

You may also find help on MN in the legal section?

Needless to say I won my appeal and I now work from home... which is why I'm still working on something urgent at this time of night!

The very best of luck. :)

I forgot to say, other people in a role similar to mine already worked from home/worked flexibly so I was able to talk to them and use that information so if you know other people in a similar sort of position, if not the same job, already work different hours to the norm you can use that as evidence that customer service won't be affected.

Some great advice south thanks!

And nice to hear a successful story

Are they worried that you might not have childcare in place for when you are working from home? Might be worth reassuring them on that point in case that is their concern.

Well they can turn you down and they can do so for good business reasons but I hope you win your appeal.

I forgot to say that in my appeal letter I set it out under the headings of the eight refusal reasons and put my arguments against each one underneath so it was really structured.

I also made sure I kept saying how loyal I was to the job, how I've always down a good job etc (if you have had good appraisals etc use that as evidence) and is seriously have to consider looking elsewhere if I couldn't work flexibly, but of course I wouldn't want it to get to that etc.

Last resort, try asking for a 6 month trial period?

Hi flowery I've explicitly told them that my son will be going to his grandma's that day.

He will only just be 6 months when I return which is the main reason I want to ensure a better balance of spending time with him. Three days in the office from 7.30 to 5.15 means I will only just get an hour (depending on traffic and getting away on time) with him hence the request to work from home Thursday's so at least I'll get breakfast before he's picked up and can then do bath/bedtime. Then I'll have the whole day Friday with him and will have the opportunity to meet up with my other mummy friends too.

Appeal hearing 9.30 this morning, very nervous!

Hope it's going well!

How did it go? I really hope you've managed to reach an agreement - seeing so little of your kids in the week is so hard :(

The meeting was really tough, I tried so hard not to but ended up getting emotional, so with myself!

No agreement was met. I have to go back to them Monday with a new proposal. They are pressurising me to go part time but will not allow me to compress my week. I font see how their argument that I need to be available for face to face meetings doesn't stand when I'm not paid full time?! Cost savings ahoy.

I really feel I have a good case for taking it further as don't believe their business reasons will stack up (I prefer face to face meetings is what u was told by the director, not exactly business critical!) but debating whether it's worth my while in terms of stirring it all up!

I'm so annoyed though as I feel bullied into negotiating less hours and s pay cut effectively for doing the same job!!

Don't worry about getting emotional. Did you write everything out and have they even given you anything in writing either?

If he only prefers meetings to be face to face you need that in writing as then you can counter it.

Don't forget you DO NOT have to meet at a time just agreeable to them - it has to be good for both sides. Go back on Monday first thing and tell them that you need to postpone it until Wednesday (say) and you also need something in writing first. Start quoting employment law at them, all from the Direct.gov website. Don't worry about pushing it - you want this but you are going to have to be strong with them.

Best of luck again x

Great advice, thanks