17yr old daughter being offered a job, but wont pay her minimum wage.

[easycomeeasygo]

Hiya, we know someone whos opening up a salon, hes interviewed and offered my daughter a position as trainee/student. Heres a round up of the info hes sent her...this cant be legal surely?

We will operate your contract on a month by month rolling basis until your training is completed which we predict will take 3 months. Your contract will roughly be the same as if you were on an apprenticeship scheme without the fear that the Government will cut funding for certain individuals midway through.

You will start at the entry level of sweeping up, washing hair, bringing refreshments to our clients etc. and as your training progresses (and your confidence grows), you will answer phones, operate the till etc. etc.

Your training will cover Manicures, Pedicures, Nail Art, Make up, Indian Head massage, thread waxing eye brows etc. business practices. This will be private training and funded by us.

After the bulk of your training is completed and you have successfully demonstrated knowledge, skill and confidence when dealing with clients, we will offer you the chance to either work on a PAYE position or let you have a Beauty Station in the salon free of charge (usually £100 per week) until January 1st 2013 only taking 5% of the income from your clients to cover Utility bills and receptionist.

If you agree to take the position we will require you to to work 10am to 4pm (arriving 9:30am sharp for preparation and leaving 4:30pm after overall clear up)

First month £40 per week - Second month £60 per week - Third month £80 per week - if you choose PAYE we will look at negotiating a contract.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Apprenticeships only pay around £2ph I think - it was mentioned with reference to those stewarding people who had to sleep under London Bridge (allegedly) last weekend.

£40pw is less than that of course...OTOH 3 months is very short training. Would she get any sort of qualification or just be considered qualified by this salon?

\link{http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/Employers/The-Basics.aspx\Apprenticeships website}

'The National Minimum Wage for apprentices is £2.60 per hour (from 1st October 2012 will change to £2.65 per hour). Many employers prefer to pay more however, and research shows that the average salary is approx £170 per week.
Employers who take on a 16-18 year old apprentice only pay their salary. The Government will fund their training.'

What would her pay be in month 4? It does sound a bit dodgy, & no real guarantee of a job at the end...

Not sure about month 4 tbh, the problem we have is that although my husband works, we calim tax credits, and shes in full time education at college, she would obviously give this up but my concern is when i phone the inland revenue they are going to question her wages for the hours worked and get this guy into trouble

and can i just add that he also said he can only pay her that way because he is funding her training. Im in two minds whether just to let her stay at college.

Stay at college. This sounds really dodgy, as if an 'unofficial' apprenticeship offers her more protection? It offers her far far less.

it gets better....this is the message i received today when i questioned him about the minimum wage....

"She would be recieving minimum wage. Contract salary £40-80 per week plus training = up to £1000 divide by hours worked = equals.... In month 4 it depends on what qualifications she has passed - how many clients she can see per day - how many days etc. that is assuming we hire her, depending on her track record. Once again as stated to the Qualifications are Industry
qualifications that are assessed, moderated and certified by the Beauty Industry. Also as I said to , you could just register that she lives in the apartments above the salon. It all seems complex, and an unneccessary amount of thought, whilst I understand you not wanting to rattle the WTC cage, and rightly so, I believe that best bet is to ask the college to swap her course. Apprentice at Francesco Group who the college is linked with and get £2.30 approx per hour. That way all is above board. Do you get tax credits for in 3 months time when she is 18?

I will talk to lead stylist tomorrow, about the insurance etc. What will be will be. At least we will know one way or the other

Meant to say, as I said to for the first 3 months she would be classed as Self Employed. As you may know - when you are self employed there is no minimum wage. How the WTC see's it is anyone"

he's now saying the first 3 months shes going to be self employed!!! In what may I ask??

It sounds like a rip off to me. She would be better going to college.

You need to talk to a hairdresser!

From what I know, it is quite common for hairdressers to be self-employed and hire a "space" in an established hairdressers. Both of the hairdressers I use operate this way (one a cheapy one that does lots of old ladies hair and one run by a minor sleb hairdresser type). I had a long chat with the person who did my hair last and she explained all about it.

I really think you need to discuss with someone in the trade to find out what is what.

she would wouldnt she?? we've known this man for years too, he's always been very secretive about what he does, ive never known him to be employed let alone at least employ anyone! He's opening a beauty salon with one hairdresser...good luck to him, i think he's going to need it. Thank you everyone for your help, much appreciated.

secretive man + new business (untested) = massive alarm bells IMO

SardineQueen.....even my daughter said to forget the idea, my cousin is a hairdresser and we spoke about the 'rent a chair' type thing and even she said...if you havent got the clientele and taking into account my daughter has no experience what so ever, she hasnt got a chance, how is she supposed to be self employed in her first 3 months with no experience of what she is doing, plus he contradicts hinmself in regards to this rolling contract, shes either self employed or not, i recon its a way to help him with costs and running of the 'salon'.

The government will not be pulling funding within the next 12 weeks!

Sounds way dodgy.
Glad your DD has someone in the family who can guide her as to what is normal and sensible in the hairdressing business!
College it is

your right! Just thought it might be a chance for my daughter to get on the ladder, the tax credits isnt an issue for us, my daughter is my number one priority...but im sure the inland revenue would be on his back if we allowed this to go ahead.

yes college it is. AlpinePony...thats what i thought. And even an Apprenticeship would pay more than he would, plus it would be above board plus she wouldnt have to fund her own training!!!

If he makes a go of it there might be opportunities later.
If she needs to get work experience as part of her course or wants some money doing weekend work washing etc he might be good for that
So keep friendly with him
But totally agree that what he has suggested at the moment sounds like a terrible idea.

well...my husband put to him that idea...every saturday for a month without pay ( i wasnt too happy about this) but for her to get a feeling of work experience, he said this.....

I will run the idea past lead stylist of a four week (Saturday) taster session. The only problems I can foresee are the following:

• lead stylist may not want to train someone who will only do one day a week
• I may not want to pay the insurance premium for having with us for one day a week
• wont be doing any formal training in Beauty for the next 3 months
• By the time **starts with us in Month 4, we will already have one or two juniors on contracts part/full time - as we need trainees and juniors in the week time from our launch day

He told me he would only employ this stylist and my daughter for now and see how demand dictates before hiring anyone else...and can i say this lead stylist is 20 and no experience of running a business herself, because he is (so he says) emergrating to new zealand in a few months and wanted the business left in this young girls and my daughters hands!!! Oh im laughing as I type....it all sound rediculous!!! sorry for any spelling mistakes...housework keeps calling me :) Thanks for all of your replies

If in the future apprenticeship training is pulled by the government (which is highly unlikely given the raising of the school leaving age/requirement to be in training age) it would affect kids who were already on the scheme, that would be madness.

*wouldn't (obviously)

I would have thought the Govt will be putting more money into apprenticeships & training in the future, not less, as the cost of tuition etc puts more young people off going to university.

Your DD will have a lot more fun at college too, easycome

I don't think that your DH should be suggesting free work for your daughter without speaking to her first!

Just say no for now. if it is a raging success there will be opportunities later. If not... then there will be other things! College is definitely the right option.

Too right, I wasnt pleased to say the least, I'm amazed he didnt jump at the idea though seeing as it looks like he wants something for nothing..lol. Ah well, she's declined his offer now so college it is and thanks again all :)

Good luck to her

It also seems that she will have a lot to learn in just three months if she is to come up to a decent standard in all those sectors.

I know your daughter has made a decision to go to collage but as a hairdresser I would encouatage you to encourage her to go for an apprentice position - not with this guy tho! It's def dodgy! However if she found a suitable salon that would take her on it would be so much more beneficial to her. It usually is a standard requirement that there NVQ starts after 3months of employment.