Advice needed. Work life vs home life.

[learningaswego]

Had my dd fresh out of uni and have just got onto a graduate teacher training course due to start in September. Dd is now 16 months. The relevance of this is that I currently have no clear career/ career path.

The course itself looks great, it's in a really lovely school with a very good department and I can really see myself progressing and doing well there.

My concerns are about my contact time with my daughter. With the commute I'm looking to leave her at ~7.15 to ~6.15... effectively her waking hours. This is without the extra work I'll need to do at the weekend etc. I just want my time with her to be as stress free as humanely possible!
I have a good childminder lined up who I am happy to leave dd with so that doesn't come into it.

I don't want to miss her grow up, she still seems so small.

Dh earns enough that we can get by without me working, but to be honest this is something I would have really liked to do for myself. This isn't to say that I couldn't go for it a few years (physics and maths teachers tend to be high in demand).

I'd just like to know about the experience other mums working or not working have had - to see if I am making a mountain out of a molehill here?

(In the back of our minds Dh and I are also thinking of having another baby so wondering if I should train then do it... or get the kids out the way now. I just miss using my brain).

Any honest advice greatly appreciated

You need to do what's right for you. I had 2yrs with DC2 and then went back to work initially 4 days per week and now full time. We're lucky, DH is a SAHD as my earning potential is higher but I wish it was the other way round. IMO these first years go so fast and I would have loved to have been around during their pre-school years. But then I know lots of people that are happy to be working.

Someone suggested tossing a coin if you have a difficult decision to make. It doesn't really matter if it lands heads or tails, it's your immediate response ie if you say heads to go back to work now and it lands on heads are you pleased or disappointed?

I returned to work full time when my son was 9months old. I got my son a place in a nursery from 8-6 every day and my mum had to take him on some Saturdays because I had to work some Saturdays too. Unfortunately it meant that the only time I saw my son most of the week was when he was tired and grouchy and it made it stressful for me. Then he started getting bitten by another child at the nursery and after 16 bites including a massic purple one on his FACE!!! And the nursery still refusing to remove or seperate the child responsible I pulled my son out of the nursery and moved him to a childminder. This was about a year after I returned to work. She seemed fantastic to start with but obviously she took on too much because a year later I was pulling my son out of the childminders and reporting her for child neglect. She refused to potty train him at 2yrs9months when at home he had made definite progress using a potty and pants and also I started marking his nappies to find that he was coming home in the same one I sent him in in the morning!!! She also wasn't feeding him properly because he was supposed to be having 3 meals a day there and yet he got so underweight I took him to the health visitor with concerns because he was literally bones (he's always been quite skinny btw which is why I didn't notice sooner) so I pulled him fromthe childminder immediately and reported her as well as giving up work. Within a week of being home with me he was fully potty trained even at night so clearly he WAS ready and we've managed to build our relationship back up again. I know I've obviously just been unlucky with regards to my childcare but comparing the actual relationship between me and my now 3 1/2 year old son to what it was when I was working full time and I've also realised all the things I've missed about him growing up. I can definitely say I wouldn't do it again. I'm 36weeks pregnant with number two and I can definitely say I am NOT going back to full time work until both children are in school. I'll probably do something part time when baby number 2 is a bit older if I find a childminder I can trust.

Whilst there are some children that do fine with parents working full time I think at a young age it really benefits them to have time with at least one parent home. Is there no way you could do a part time course in something for yourself or a part time job for yourself? I think easing into it to see how you go is probably a much better choice than leaping in with long days away from your little one. They grow up so quickly and I regret so much about missing 2 years of my son growing up.

OP-
I think Jessibun's story is quite extreme, I am sorry that was your experience but I wouldnt get to worried about that kind of thing happening to you- its rare.

I've worked full time since my daughter was 11months and she is one of the most happy, socially skilled, well adjusted, laid back children in the nursery (I quote that as they said that to me yesterday during a review).

It's been very hard at times, I struggle with guilt all the time but she hasnt suffered. We have good times in the evenings before her bed and weekends are sacred and golden for us. At that age, its not about the amount of time you spend, its more about what you do with that time. I spend a lot of time mentoring returning mothers (not all full time- so do 2d/wk!) as part of my job and we have speakers in who research this field all the time and there was some scary fact that SAHM spend only a fraction more 'quality' time with their kinds that WOHMs as they are busy doing other things.

Personally, Im working hard now to get in a position to be working partime when she is at school so I can pick her up- something she will remember as she grows up. She wont remember the very early days

Go easy on yourself and think about where you want to be in 5 yrs time. If you dont do the course, you will have a child at school and then be starting the course, or have lost the opportunity. If you do it, you will working school hours or thereabouts by the time your DC is at school (im sure its not quite that simple but you get what I mean)

IMO, a parent with a good work ethic is a massively important role model for a child but its not for everyone, i accept that.

Yeah I did say I think that I was just very unlucky with the childcare providers I happened to get and I'm sure there are LOADS of wonderful childcare providers out there. However the problem for me with regards to that was that my son is trusting me to leave him somewhere safe where he's happy and I'd already let him down twice. I couldn't do it again it broke my heart.

The biggest problem with my job was the amount of hours and days I worked to there was very very little time for any quality time, it was put my son to bed and then even at the weekend I only had a Sunday with him as long as it wasn't month end. My boss refused me my son's birthday off because it falls in the week between Xmas and new year which as our company is open and it's "month end" no one is allowed that time off. I wasn't working for a very child friendly company and the flexibility if he was ill was a nightmare. If I was able to find a job with less hours that were more flexible to parents then I would love a chance to get out of the house again because I do strongly believe that working parents promote a very good work ethic for their children in a world where so many people find it easier to claim benefits than have either parent work!

It's just a case of weighing up your options really and realistically assessing how much time you will have to spend with your little one and making sure you do enjoy that time even if you're tired and it seems like hard work.

My partner works about 70+ hours a week and so when he gets home I often have to nudge him into doing something with our son for quality time because he's tired and grumpy lol

Obviously as long as both you and your little angel are both coping well with you working and happy with the arrangement then there shouldn't be any problems it's just when you mentioned the extra work at weekends it made me wonder if maybe it would be quite a lot to take on as your first "returning to work" kind of thing.

Op,I have 3 DCs they are now 14,13&8
I went back to work when dd was 6 months old.

I have worked full time ever since except for 4 months maternity leave with both ds

They all went to the same day nursery until they were 3. It was a wonderful nursery, they were well looked after and happy.

I am personally not cut out to be a SAHM, I also felt the need to be earning money, and using my brain for something other than my children.
Not that I think being at home is not using your brain, it's just not what I enjoy. Personally I think being at home is harder work.

I did feel guilty about not being at home, but I tend to think there is a lot of guilt involved as a mother, whatever you decide to do.

i have been back at work full time since DS was 7 months old- I work long hrs and have a commute. it is difficult.

what has helped is:

• DS goes to bed late - So i get home at 7-7-30 ish and he goes to bed after 9 (which is tiring !)
• I can work from home and do so once a week normally which helps
• DS is in nursery near work 2 days a week which means I get to spend the commute with him -which is quality time.

but i have found it difficult-DS clearly prefers to be with me than at nursery and can get very upset when being left there ( partly to do with the fact he only goes 2 days a week); it puts pressure on your relationship as well (DP is part time sahd) as you (or rather I) tend to want to spend my spare time with DS or as a family rather than a couple time- I also get little me time (I am either at work or with DS); i think if you can do it go for part-time.

i know a lot of women who went back full time and who have reduced their hours

Oh If you haven't already got a cleaner get one - you don't want to spend your spare time cleaning.Ditto shopping.

I returned to work when DD was 4.5 months old (in the days before mat leave was so extended, so I had 16 weeks statutory and took another 4 unpaid). And when she was 8 months old, I came back from my summer hols (a day early) to go straight onto a Uni course for work and not back to the office (my poor boss got a call from me on hols to day I'd been accepted).

It was hard work. I had a year of full time college (although I was able to collect DD from creche about 5ish most days and brought her home with me, DH droppped her there in the mornings), and DH used to take her off to ILs one weekend a month to let me write my papers and study. And the following year I had to write a research thesis while back at fulltime work, so again full on and DH used to head off for one weekend a month too.

We had put DD in a creche near to us at work so she commuted with us. It meant that even if she was in the car seat, she was with one of us and we could chat away if she was awake. And if work delayed me, or traffic was gridlocked, I wasn't paniccing about getting to creche on time - we could pull over and I could feed her if need be (when quite small), or give a drink of juice and snack (when a bit bigger) - and we even stopped at McD's on a couple of occasions when town snarled up completely and drove home later when she was fed and traffic was moving again.

There were a good handful of kids (small creche anyway) who used to arrive at 8am opening time. Most were dressed but a couple arrived in PJs and would get dressed in creche. And creche gave brekkie to all those in before 9 (even if they'd already eaten at home, like DD).

For me, I was happy to go back to work at the time, and very happy to do the course. It was VERY hard work as I hadn't realised quite how many brain cells seemed to have been fried over the previous year (my ability to remember numbers had gone completely and I had to relearn that). But it was also well worth doing.

You need DP to be on board. If possible, consider childcare in the location where college/school are, so that you can share the commute with your DD. Or else use the commute to do as much of the prep work as you can (if you can use public transport, that is - or get lectures/books etc onto podcasts and play those in the car) so that you can enjoy the time at home before DD goes to bed without guilt. Can you get her up in the mornings if DP has to drop her to childcare? Try to organise your own meals so that they are in the oven when you get in or just need reheating rather than lots of work when you walk in the door - and you can then spend whatever time you have with DD rather than on urgent housework. And leave cleaning and tidying jobs until later when DD is in bed if you can, or do them while DD is in her highchair chattering away to you (like kitchen prep or washing up).

yy to the cleaner

the point about DP/H being on board is key. If your partner wont do 50% of the jobs, all the jobs then you will be exhausted.

good luck- im sure you can make it work.

Hi,
I worked 3 days a week for 3.5 yrs and it was the absolute perfect balance for me and my 3 children. However I had the opportunity recently to do the full 5 days to try it out and I've been doing that cause we needed the money. I have to say the extra money is just not worth it. I have lost thd balance and lost a nice calm routine. I miss my youngest whose now in nursery more, I'm tired when cooking the dinner and helping with homework and when they want to chat and ask me tonnes of questions I am so exhausted I give half hearted answers. I've always got a list in my head of what needs done (food shop, housework, dental appointments, kids parties, visit grandparents etc etc etc). Even if I get everyone to help me my head is just not in the moment. I am definitely more stressed. My husband works ft and does as much as he can to help but....
Anyway, enough moaning from me. I just wanted to give an honest glimpse of my situation just now. I am definitely going down to 4 or 3 days after the summer hols. I'd rather be around for my kids than have extra money to do up the house or buy nice clothes. I will do all that stuff when they're in high school.
Good luck, just do what suits you and yours.
Ps one last thing. I really regret working ft when my middle child was a baby. He is 6 now and I feel he missed out on time with me. My youngest has had me part time for nearly 4 yrs and we are very close for it. This is another reason I want to continue part time- I like being there for my middle child now in the school play ground- picking him up and dropping him off. Makes me feel good
Mothers guilt is a terrible thing though.

In all honesty, I have left teaching because of issues around home/work balance and couldn't see how it would have worked once I had children.

The problem is that the work extends well beyond the working day and is almost open-ended.

I think that if you are having doubts, see if you can defer a year or do it part-time. I felt so much more comfortable leaving my child once they were 2 plus, and even more comfortable now that they are two-and-a-half.

You are young, with so many years and lots of energy left in you - there is plenty of time for you to teach.

I had to go back (to teaching) when ds was 3 months old, as many other do/did. It is hard, but needs must for a lot of people. However I was already established and pretty experienced and confident about doing my job.
My experience of working in a school with someone who did the GTP is that it was an extremely hard year. It nearly broke her and her dds were something like 9 and 14 when she did it, so not nearly so dependent on her, and certainly getting her sleep each night, also she lived right by school and had no commute as such, etc. I think you'll find it extremely difficult with tiny children, if I'm honest.

---original long long message just got deleted by dd (ahhrrghghgh)so please excuse this for being short and sweet (ish) when you guys have written longer, more eloquent messages. -------

I really appreciate all of your responses, the positive and the negatives.

One of my greatest worries I have is how, if I did drop out of this post,how I would tell the school. I accepted the post in Feb to start in Sept and there is no way I could blame them for being royally errr peeved lets say. Really I'd need to let them know asap but feeling under pressure only makes me crumble rather than assess the matters objectively. And what would I even say - sorry I realised I'd miss dd too much? Surely that would give mums a bad name and make them reluctant to consider someone like me next time. I'd be so furious if I were them. Damn.

Another guilt trip is whether or not dd would have more fun at daycare than with me - the other children, different stimulation - I try really hard but there's only so much you can do on a budget without 'mum friends' (when are they meant to come lol)? I got a touch depressed with dd and it took me a while to get my act together so I'm also a bit worried that without a job/ something else I might go back down... but to get a p/t job would barely cover the cost of childcare. It feels very much this or nothing - but strictly speaking schools do not offer this part-time, and I was told this on my offer letter.

Also have greater family pressures - particularly the women in my family feel that in order to secure my position in my relationship I need to have a profession, coupled with the fact that my sister has had very bad luck getting onto teacher training the past couple of years means that turning this down would not go down well. I'd like to say it doesn't matter what they think but to me it does, they've all been really supportive and I know they are being driven by the right reasons. That makes it even harder really.

Mum told me yesterday she felt it was a mother's duty to make sure she can provide for her children no matter what, divorce, death etc.

Anyone else had similar experiences?

Want to live life with the least regrets which makes me feel that I should savour time with dd and possibly dc (so long as we can afford to) - but what if something does go wrong?

Just feels like an impossible decision.

Do any teachers know if someone takes time out after gtp/pgce if there is a time limit before they can do their nqts?

Thank you all again x

Hopefully someone will ba along with better information soon, but I believe there is a time limit on when you can do your NQT year. Sorry, I'd only be guessing if I said a figure though.
I do see what you are saying about pulling out - not that many GTPs you could get to do come up, so I can understand the dilemma about not wanting to pass up the opportunity now you have it.

Sorry, but I think you should defer or pull out if your heart isn't in it.

Teaching is something that you need to be 110% sure about at the beginning of the journey - it will get hard enough as you go along!

The school will be ok, trust me, they won't have been timetabling you in in the same way as a fully qualified teacher. It is also still early in the recruitment season for schools - they will be getting a rush of resignations and changes in the next few weeks before the May 31st deadline for contracted teachers.

Why not take another year out then do a PGCE?

I think it sounds like too much for you and your dc. She will be much happier with you than a child minder at 16 months and you will get hardly any time with her. Won't you be busy working at weekends too? The idea of having quality time while a dc is hungry, tired and strapped in a car seat is a bit sad.

If you do physics and maths, why not do some tutoring? And consider doing your course a bit later.

If you can afford to, spend as much time as you can with your children.
You will NEVER regret that, I promise :)