Long-term off sick when pregnant

[Ellla]

Hi,
I decided to start this topic hoping that somebody will give me some advice, as I am a little bit confused what to do with my work situation.
I have been working in a secondary school as a support staff member for a couple of years now. I am really tired with my job, the problem is that I have direct contact with students and behaviour is a serious issue at my school. It is a very abusive environment and every day I face lots of anger form pupils, there are fights, vandalism, and all other sorts of abuse towards staff and other students. It really is draining for me to work there so I started thinking about moving to primary school or just career change.
Obviously its never a good time to leave job because of money and other issues, so I keep delaying any decisions till I realised I just cannot take it any more.
At the same time I have been thinking about having another baby, as I have just one child, aged 5 and get closer to the age of 35, so its actually now or never for me. Again, I have been putting it till 'next year' for the last 3 years because I just couldn't imagine being pregnant at my current work, it would be such a risk to my and baby's health.

Recently I started thinking that if I got pregnant soon, I wouldn't have to come back to school after summer holiday at all. I could go off sick for 3 or 4 months and then just start maternity leave as early as possible. I dont think I would have any problems with getting signed off work for that long as I already have a history of depression and work related stress and my GP knows my difficulties. However, I have never been off sick for longer than a week, I used to get a couple of days off just to compose myself and always get back to work quickly and my overall attendance is pretty good.

My concern is that I might have problems in the future if I decide to be off sick for that long. I wouldn't like my employer to chase me and check if my absence is genuine, as work attendance is a problem at my school. Many people just go off sick a lot because they cant cope with workload/stress.
Also, I am afraid that any possible future employers might find out that I was off sick for that long and will not be very willing to employ somebody like me.
I know that pregnancy related sickness shouldn't increase your absence but on the other hand it must stay somewhere on your record and it just makes bad impression.

I would appreciate any advice or comments from people who had been im similar situation. Please do not think that I am lazy and want to earn while not working, I would be happy even to go for unpaid leave, but my school will never grant 2-3 months term time, so being off sick is the only option to qualify for maternity pay and still remain employed when pregnant.

So, you want to tell your employer you're I'll and take several months off even though you're fit and healthy?

As someone who has had months off work for genuine mental health problems I truely find it disgusting that you're going to pretend to be ill.

Words fail me.

I worked for a HR in a council and knew the absence policy backwards. You should view your employer's absence procedures to check this (usually available on an internal website for employees - but (five years ago) it was illegal for an employer to count "pregnancy related" absence as part of the sickness absence procedure. In effect they are not allowed to record any absence due to health issues resulting from your pregnancy in your attendance record. Similarly they are unable to launch any proceedings against you if you are absent for this reason. Usually there is a numerical trigger point at which disciplinary proceedings are intitiated, which range from informal meetings to more formal interviews etc. I would suggest you join a union and they will be able to back you up if there were any fall out from it. You would probably need to back up your illnesses with a doctors note or letter if you went off long term - you self certify on short term illness.
Tread carefully though as if they perceive you are playing the system, it is a small world and things are passed on informally - outside the formal system of references etc. and you may find it difficult to get work within the same authority.

How can you judge me and say I am going to pretend anything?
You know nothing about my life and my job.
How can you decide if my health problems are genuine or not?
I could have been off sick for depression for months but never wanted to cause trouble to my colleagues and leave them overloaded with work and always wanted to cope as long as possible. My job was always in the first place and then my health, my family. For far too long.

Yes, I do not want to be off sick with depression, I do not want that stigma because I know how people, especially people in my environment look at you and treat you if you let them know too much.
Yes, I prefer to be off sick for work related stress, that is actually the main reason why I am still in the position I am - stuck in a rut, not having any strength, any motivation to change anything.
Does it make a liar, a criminal, an evil person?
Good for you that your problems are so genuine!

If your job is a risk to your health your employer is obligated to perform a risk assessment and put measures in place to reduce/remove these risks. If they are so severe they cannot be removed you could be given an alternative role or in extreme circumstances you could be suspended until either an alternative was found or you had the baby. You would be much better off pursuing this route than being signed off as sick which would likely put your employers backs up and cause you more stress.

But you're talking about taking time off in the future. You're either predicting that you're going to be ill which is impossible or you're going to pretend to be ill.

Good for you for muddling through. I would have loved to have been able to muddle through. Unfortunately I didn't have that choice.

You can't "choose" to be off sick.

Either you are sick, or you are not.

If you get pregnant, why can't you just tick off the days until maternity leave? With school holidays etc its a matter of a few weeks!

Sorry but it looks like shirking to me.... if you don't like your job then find a new one.

What do you expect to say when you talk about 'deciding' to go off sick for a few months so you can avoid having to go to work and still get paid?!

Your employer (and any future employer) can't hold pregnancy related sickness absence against you. But if you're planning to use a history of depression/work-related stress to get signed off then you may find it challenged unless you have a very co-operative GP who is prepared to say your pregnancy is causing it.

You do not have much choice with mortgage to pay, have you?
I cannot just give up my job and nobody really know how much it cost me to stay there and how much I have sacrificed for that job. Ticking the days off is what I do every bloody term.
Maybe I should just do what I feel every bloody day, just do not get up from the bed one day and let everything collapse. Then I wouldn't be choosing to be or not to be sick, wouldn't be shirking.
Yes. At the end of the day I know nothing about 'real mental health problems'. I am just good at muddling through.

Thanks for bringing me back to reality.

I went off sick for 5 months as my manager was a jealous nasty bully and it was not doing me any favours being at work ending up in tears all the time. I was off sick with SPD and stress as my gp was fab after I cried my eyes out, I was made redundant as soon as they heard about my pregnancy but I managed to actually finish as I would have gone on maternity leave. It was the best thing I ever did changing jobs.

Oh FGS - don't start on the "you don't have much choice with a mortgage to pay" Do you realise how insulting that sounds?

You have just shown how little you know about mental health problems by saying people have a choice whether or not they just get on with things.

Mortgage to pay has nothing to do with it! You do have plenty of choice.

You could either 'decide' to go off sick, or you could carry on working as normal unless and until you are genuinely ill, and then go off sick for the appropriate amount of time necessary at that point.

If you're genuinely not well enough to work, pg or not, no one will advise you you should keep going if it's against medical advice. You mention the job being harmful to your/baby's health, and if that's genuinely the case, your employer will need to make adjustments and/or you may need to go off sick.

But you're not even pregnant, and you are talking about deciding to take a few months off, in a 'I'll be able to get away with it because of my history' type way.

Would it not be wise to sort out your job situation first? i.e get a new one? You're clearly not happy there at all..no one should have to be so unhappy at work. You spend so much of your life at work. Personally, I'd prioritise that over trying to have a baby just to get away from that situation (that's what it sounds like) - change that first, then you'll be in a good place mentally for a baby. :)

You're only 35, so plenty of time to have another baby. :)

p.s Think some of the ppl who've replied to your original post have been rather harsh unnecessarily...maybe they have their own issues which they are taking out on you, so don't feel bad!

Don't have much choice except to "play" the system? Really??

Either get pregnant and keep working up to maternity leave
or
Look for a new job
or
If you genuinely are sick/depressed/whatever get signed off by the doctor.

I've lost count of how many people in education I've come across as long term sick for "stress"... no idea why that profession seems to cause so much stress related illness. And I'm a teacher, who used to be a lawyer, and I know damn well which was the most "stressful".

Obviously a wind-up, hopefully you'll conceive to order and then go sick as planned and let some other, probably already overworked colleague, cover for you. Just glad I don't work with you.

My issue is I really resent anyone suggesting that someone with mental health problems has a choice over whether or not they take time off work.

If your off sick with depression might it cause problems with your pregnancy, obv a depressed pregnant lady will require more antenatal care that someone who isn't depressed? I might be totally wrong with that does anyone know?

Could you not take unpaid parental leave / holidays towards the end of your pregnancy so you could leave at around 21 /22 weeks instead of 29? If you are genuinely sick then why not go on sick now and get better before you have a baby?

All right.
I wish now I hadn't start this thread.
I am being judged and kicked now because my condition is not severe enough and it's all not serious enough.
It really is a good learning curve and it only proves that that nobody can appreciate the fact that you try your hardest and people just look at things through their own experience or stereotypes.
It's not worth trying to speak to you about my situation. I am just being ridiculed. Again, it only proves my point - its not worth trying as some people will always know better and will always make their opinion before getting to the core of the problem.
I might not suffer from schizophrenia or biopolar disorder or acute depression. I do not bit myself up or cut my wrists. I might not be THAT bad. But sometimes I think it would be easier to be 'seriously ill' than just explain that you have ONLY moderate long term depression. Because what is it? It's nothing! And you can actually do things as long as medicine work. Its not really serious, is it...
Thank you for your honesty. Good night to all the ladies here who helped me feel rubbish. As they say, there is always somebody you can count on...

In your OP you said you were "tired" and it was "draining".

If you had said "my doctor has diagnosed me with moderate long term depression, I have been carrying on at work for as long as I have felt able, but I'm coming to the point where I cannot do any more" that would a been a whole different story.

So which is it? Are you tired and drained (which is how we all feel sometimes) or diagnosed with depression?

Nobody's saying your not ' really' Ill, if you feel unable to cope at work then please do get a sick note. If you were pregnant and needed to be off sick, get a sick note.

The thing people have a problem with is you saying:
I'm ill but I can cope at work, if I get pregnant I'll "say" I can't cope to get a sick note because I'll get paid then. Your saying you want to exaggerate your illness when pregnant so you don't have to work, your planning it allready for goodness sake.

Had you asked "I'm worried if I need to go on sick when pregnant what are my rights?" then I'm sure you would of had a different response.

Oh and by the way I'm pregnant and have been signed off by the doctor until the 20th December. Actually I feel like total shit about it as I know I have let my pupils down just before SATs, the parents of my pupils down, and my fantastic colleagues are racing round like headless chickens trying to arrange cover for my lessons. Its crap, I feel horribly guilty.

No, you're being 'judged' because you are not yet pregnant, cannot possibly know what your health will be like in any future pregnancy, yet seem to think you can plan sick leave at a convenient time many months in the future.

I think you need to be tacking your current health, and also your working conditions, right now, and leave the future to take care of itself.

Have you spoken to your managers in school about your concerns that it is not a safe environment? How did they respond?

And even though cuts to school mean recruitment is down, do dust off your CV and have a look around for a place which will suit you better. Baby plans aside (for the timing of that can never be certain), working towards a change of job to one with an environment you are happier in is likely to be the better solution.

Words fail me

You don't "decide to be off sick", you are either well enough to work or you ate not.

I was off sick for quite a while once when PG. Mostly because I'd had 7 MCs and needed very close monitoring due to very high risk of MC again. Also because bullying boss wanted me to travel long haul 15-25,000 miles a month throughout PG (which GP refused to countenance). I didn't get paid and ended up having to leave firm and sue them, whilst suffering from terrible PND and under threat of losing my home.

I have spent plenty of time during my career (as manager, mentor and HR specialist) defending women who have been appallingly treated and who have had careers closed to them and who have battled their way through discrimination and bullying and debilitating stress, because it's the right thing to do and also because I know what it is like to walk that path. I am judging the OP against all of them and as a result am unable to even begin to come close to responding fully to OP without breaking the MN talk guidelines.

I do agree that planning to be sick in the future isn't right,and that the op needs to sort her job out now to support her own mental health.
However personal experience has shown me that some people continue to work with ongoing depression.
This isn't because they are stronger or their depression is less bad, for me I was depressed for years would contemplate and plan suicide,self harm ( I actually used to pinch my legs in meetings under the table) I would cry ,gained 5 stone ,this carried on for about 4 years.I also had 2 kids and a divorce during that time.
I also was a senior manager for a charity managing hundreds of staff and a budget of millions.it was hell,i was so unwell for so long that It became normal.
I couldn't articulate any of this at the time,I gave up the job,moved lost weight,that makes it sound much easier than it was at the time.
We need to understand that there are many 'functioning' depressed people,and for me I use that word loosely.Maybe I'm reaching here but the op reminds me of myself,almost seeking reassurance that its ok for it to be too much and to take a break,apologies if i'm reading you wrong

and everyone take a deep breath, OP, if you job is with aggressive teenagers I can understand why you would worry about when you get pregnant and as you already stated stressful job.
go and look at your HR's policies most places of work that are as you discribe you have to be be temp redeployed once you have told them you are pregnant, and even if they don't do this as policy they will have to do a risk assessment and this should be big red flags to them.
next is sickness adsence on OH forms is not needed, due to the Equality Act, My OH Pre placement forms still come back as the old pre-employment with the sickness bit on, just because HR have it saved on their drive to send out and I can't beat them with a big stick to remove it, I just ignore the sickness bit now, and sharpen my big stick :)
But I have to say I am as annoyed as other posters that you are appearing to want to work the system (maybe it was badly worded your original post, but that is how it came across), I have to fight with HR at times about really genuine cases of depression, PTSD, CFS etc, who's problems have be devalued by people who actually just can't cope with the job they are in but for some reason will not look for something they would like and there really is a difference.
if you are depressed/stressed now deal with it now, HR, line manager, OH of you have it, do it now.