Other people's reactions when they know you're being made redundant...

[escaping]

Long story, but loads of change at workplace, and several people at risk of redundancy - me included.

Strangely, I find have mixed feelings:

1. It's actually fab news, because I was planning to resign in March anyway and go freelance(part of larger 'family plan' which DH & I have been mapping out for nearly 12 months), and now I will walk away with about £35k tax free But...
2. I am finding the 'process' really hard... I haven't told them I was planning to resign 'cos I don't want to negatively influence any potential negotiating position I may have, AND I am actually concerned about the manner in which individuals have been 'selected' - there seems to rather to many inconsistencies in the 'process' i.e. 'jobs to the boys' (literally, in some cases!) - but although I, and others, suspect something untoward, it would, of course, be difficult to prove..

At the moment I hate being at work 'cos I don't want people saying how sorry they feel for me etc - I can't seem to find the right set of words, without it seeming that I'm trying to put on a brave face - I can't imagine anyone believing me if I said, "Oh, it's OK, I was going to leave anyway..."

I can't decide whether to question the process a bit more, out of principle, or whether to just smile sweetly and get the hell out of there asap.

Blimey, at 35K and planning to leave anyway I would definitely smile sweetly and get the hell out - bugger the process!

Tough call...
Of course the package is often better with redundancy. But it often happens that they might ask for voluntary redundancies first, so in which case financially, you'd be well on to wait perhaps...

Smile and get out of their - if you start questioning you will probably end up being offered an alternative position and find your self stuck for ever!

As far as answering other people, you could just say - oh its not too bad - just pushed me to take a step I only ever dreamed of - this has now given me the excuse to do it!

Thing is, I head up a team who are all affected, and I sort of feel I should be leading the 'charge' on their behalf too

And my pride leads me to want to make sure that once I've gone, the company 'finds out' that I was on my way anyway - mad, I know, but I now hate the fact that 'they're controlling things' IYSWIM?

Blimey, and the problem is...?

HMC - yes - I was hoping someone would say that to kick some sense into me! (DH's view...)

As long as I haven't offended you with my directness!

Smile sweetly and get out

When dh was made redundant I was really upset with the few people who said 'Congratulations", or "you'll be rich' - we had known it might happen, and we had insurance to pay the mortgage but we lived off the redundancy payment for 5 months until dh was employed again, and although we could have lasted longer before having to sell the house I hated not knowing how long it was going to go on for.
There are not that many vacancies at the level dh works at so although he is great at his job and had great references we had to wait for a job at that level to come up - or take one lower with a pay cut and mess up his c.v. Horrible time, no cause for celebration here.

What will you achieve out of challenging it? If it's a big co, and I assume it is given the package, then they will have followed process and taken expensive legal advice and you may well find out that you don't have a case anyway. But it will cost you time, effort and emotional energy to find this out and you were going to go anyway. I'd say it's a good result and in your position I'd smile and walk away. Can you take any holiday if it's annoying you being there? If not, just shrug and say 'it's one of those things' when people ask you. If you had resigned you'd have got nothing. And even if they do find out you were thinking of it, so what? It won't change anything, not a jot. The only caveat I'd add is if you truly feel some huge injustice has been done and you want to do something about it then do so. There is legislation, if you think you have a right to challenge and you can't bear not to do it, then go ahead. But I have to say, I wouldn't - your position sounds pretty ideal to me!

Is there any way that you can barter to go voluntarily? Many companies would much rather you went of your own accord -- less gruesome, less damage to employee morale, less chance of legal repercussions.
You might find they were receptive to this even at this late stage.
You do have a chance to make the process work for you if you get hold of the right person.
Sounds pretty good either way

I have no experience of the whole redundancy situation but am pleased to hear you feel there is a lot you can turn to your advantage if all goes well.
I hear utterly what you are saying about your team leader role though. Over the years I have had to steer a quite volatile and "challenging" group of people through a lot of change and turmoil in the workplace and you do feel at times you have to do things for them that you know are not the best for your own agenda - helping them mount legitimate opposition to a new policy that to you makes good sense, for example! No answers, just sympathies.

You lucky thing

Dear escaping,
Smile sweetly but say nothing! Do not, above all, say you were going to leave anyway. That can be fed back in afterwards if you still feel that way.That's a separate issue.You can always nod enigmatically, and mutter about needing time to work out what to do. Everything in life can be an opportunity, but you don't have this £35k 'til it's in the bank.

The redundancy process can be very stressful (not been there myself, but have a DH who has) no matter what an opportunity it may be. DH got a year's salary, I have a good job and we live within our means, but we could take no holidays as he was always in the middle of some interview stage.
If the process is unfair, consult your union, or if not , then you could take legal advice (get a quote before you see a lawyer)look at the ACAS site/google under 'fair dismissal'.
It may not be worth the stress and cost of challenge. If you are leaving anyway, it may even slow down your new plans if your departure is drawn out.

Good luck!

hi escaping. i'm in your situation at the moment. i'm expecting the formal redundancy process to begin next week.

when the subject has come up, i have put on a brave face and kept my head held high i find it heads off the sympathy

If you were planning to leave anyway, keep quiet about it. I was made redundant once when I was planning to leave too but the process took ages as people kept coming up with various unsuitable positions they thought I could fill which I had to keep wangling my way out of.

So I definitely wouldn't fight the process but wouldn't appear too overjoyed either!

reading that, it's cliche ridden without useful detail.

i've said:

• i've been in the firm a long time, a new challenge would be great
• subtly emphasised the fact that it's down to budget cuts rather than performance
• dropped in a hint about the package...

it's not an easy situation to be in, and i find people's concern a bit grating, i'd far rather people treated me normally.

in your case, i certainly wouldn't mention that you planned to go anyway - i think there's too much of a risk that they find a reason not to make you redundant.

bland comments about the opportunity to find a new opportunity with a large cheque in your pocket should neutralise any icky conversations with "concerned" colleagues.

hth and good luck.

katyp >> So I definitely wouldn't fight the process but wouldn't appear too overjoyed either!

spot on! you need to convince that if the right thing came up inside your organisation you'd be interested, but otherwise you're well prepared for the challenge of redundancy!

i hope it doesn't take too long for you, i've been waiting 2m for the axe to finally fall - the uncertainty has been quite painful at times.

Hmm - although I favour the get out quickly and with the cash approach, I had an interesting conversation with a senior manager in the company who I really trust.

He said he thinks I should start to 'ask questions' about the process that was supposedly adhered to, in a very open, non-confrontational, way. He thinks I may have some grounds for claiming constructie dismissal - which, although I may choose not to ultimately pursue through the courts, would give me a very good basis for negotiating the maximum payout - perhaps the redundancy + some sort of compensation...

Basically my job has disappeared, and my team will report into someone else, who is currently at the same level as me. However this person (let's call them H) has already been appointed into the 'new role' and this means H has been promoted. H has no experience in the area my team covers - so it is new responsibility for which they are unqualified - in my opinion.
In my mind, this new role should have been openly posted (as is happening in other similar situations across the business) and both H & I should have had a chance to apply for it?

Several comment have made the same observation too.

For the record, you wont get £35k tax free as the limit for tax-free payments is £30k.

That is a fairly substantial package, way above the statutory minimum. Are there 20 or more redundancies? If so, the whole thing will be long drawn-out as there has to be at least 30 days consultation. If not, it might be worth a quiet word with HR to see if you can go quickly and short-circuit the process. You will have to sign a compromise agreement in any case, so there is no threat to the company that by cutting corners they are in any greater danger of being sued by you. imo it would be better to make a quick clean break and get on with your life rather than asking awkward questions.

Thanks clerk - yes, I know there is a £30k tax free limit.

I know it sounds a lot, but I am a senior manager with the firm and this would be less than 6 months salary equivalent, so it may be worth pursueing.
Yes, there are more than 20 people at risk, and the 30 day consultation thing will apply.

I had an 'informal' conversation with my boss today which made me even more mad and convinced I need to do something more than just 'accept it'.

In career development discussions last year I had said that I wans't interested in pursuing roles at the next level (Director level) as I didn't feel able to commit the time required due to my young family, however was very keen to continue at the same level. He has kids the same age, and we had talked about the point at which the 'starting school' thing gets more demanding. At that point I'd just said something about perhaps needing to talk about more flexible working arrnagements in the future.

Anyway today, he asked me how I was feeling about things, and basically said, "well, given what you've told me in the past, I can imagine that perhaps redundancy might be something you would be interested in seriously considering" . I was completely gobsmacked!

AT the suggestion of a good friend, I have started documenting details of conversations like this, in the event that there is a future case or something.

I am increasingly convinced that they have seen me as a 'soft target' to cut cost out of the business, assuming I'll go without a fight.

I have no experience of this though, and I don't really know what to do next, or how to steer through this.

escaping, given that you were thinking of moving on anyway, may i ask what it is you hope to get out of the "asking awkward questions" scenario? are you hoping for a bigger settlement when you leave? is it that you are smarting rather and want to find a "reason" for the why you?

i'm just wondering what you will gain - you were going to leave anyway and this way you get to do it with a biggish cheque to boot.

Escaping. If you claim for constructive dismissal, then like any other civil case, you have to prove what your damages are, or are likely to be. A dismissal on the grounds of sexual discrimination operates slightly differently, but is nevertheless very hard to substantiate.

If you are constructively dismissed then your damages in the normal course of events are your potential loss of earnings until you manage to find alternative work.

The tribunal will make an assessment of your potential loss and then they abate this to the extent of any earnings you have made. They also deduct any redundancy payments already received.

To have any chance of getting a large award (and these awards are restricted to upper limits in no of weeks awarded and the quantum of the award) you have to have been out of work for quite some time following your dismissal. In your case this would mean that you would not be earning any money for quite some time - probably a year or maybe more by the time it comes to tribunal.

In addition, there is nothing about the appointment of H that I can see is obviously flouting employment legislation.

Use the implied sexual discrimination as a bargaining tool by all means, but think twice before persueing it legally - it is expensive and time consuming IME!

Blimey - escaping - do you work at our place !
We have just gone through restructing & redundancies with some very dodgy decisions made too. I decided to jump ship too as I didn;t like the way things were going. We also have 'jobs for the boys' & not for the girls ! In fact the only ones affected in our dept was the 2 tha had kids - hmmmmmm -coincidence ?
I've seen it as an opportunity for change & to give me a kick up the bum to go & something that I really want to do.

and to answer your initial question about reactions - I find some people taht normally speak to you, now avoid you whilst some that normally wouldn't - make a bee line to get the gossip