Not yet gone on mat leave, already been told no job to return to by direct boss

[Hpbp]

Hi, I am not sure how I should react to the news my boss announced last Monday...
I am the Finance manager of a small consultancy which has a subsidiary in Eastern Europe. The UK finance team is made of me, 6 years, an accountant, 2 years and my boss. In Eastern Europe, there s a FInance manager and an offica manager/bookkeeping clerk.
I am 24 week pg, maternity leave scheduled for mid July for due date of 27 July, I am getting only SMP, not a penny more than that. I have planned to be away for 1 year but told them verbally I was considering to be away only 6 months, tbc. The deal is that the accountant will cover for my leave and some tiny bits would be looked after by my boss because he does not trust the accountant to deal with them.
My boss advised me last week, informally as he put it, that the Board has decided to recruit some one in Eastern Europe to do my UK job, remotely, to cut down costs. He has not mentioned that another job will be offered to me but said that I should start networking to find something else. The accountant is to be trained to be able to cover for 3 months to deal with the auditors in Sept, and the new person will take over.
This company is not generous with its admin staff. We only get the minimum compensation by law. My boss has not said a word on compensation, redundancy pay off... he just said that it would not impact my maternity leave.

Legally, is the company allowed to make me redundant during pg ? Without pay off ? Is this not sneaky of them to take advantage of the pg ? Is this not discrimination ? Can I oblige them to do things formally now that they have told me ? Should I ? I don't think I should wait until i come back from mat leave to deal with this, is the pg obscuring somehow my mind ? Should I get angry ? Should i fight back ?

Many thanks. Sorry for this long story but i wanted to give as much detail as possible. Unfortunately my OH is not beingsupportive on this matter at all.

I should speak to a solicitor as i think they are probably in the wrong ,others will no doubt be along soon who have more experience but I don't think he can do this and is probably hoping to bamboozle you .CAB are also quite good in this situation.

Are you an ACA because I think they also have an advice line

Hi
I am an employment solicitor and have just sent you a message.

Mrswoodentop, I called CAB but they cannot help, they have no employment advice services where I am (! Weird !), unfrtunately I am not ACA. I am witing for ACAS to return my call.
Verybadmummy, I have replied to your PM.
Manythanks both for your replies. I am not completely out of my mind, then...

The key thing here is why they are taking your job away. If you had not been leaving to take maternity leave would your job have continued?

If they were restructuring due to cost, for example, and it was cheaper to move your job to Eastern Europe they would be on firmer ground. However, the vagueness, lack of official consultation and the fact that they are doing this during your maternity leave are all ringing alarm bells. You have a statutory right to return to your job unless that job would have ceased to exist regardless of your maternity leave.

That said, even if they are discriminating against you it could be very hard to prove. So, in the first instance I suggest you get this information confirmed. You could either ask for this in writing from them, or if that is not forthcoming, put it in writing yourself - an email would be ok, along the lines of "I just wanted to confirm our conversation of last Monday where you said "ABC". Can you confirm that I have understood correctly that my post will cease to exist at some point during my maternity leave? Could you also please explain the reasons why this is the case?". Keep it brief and non-confrontational.

In your shoes I would be contacting the charity Maternity Action and looking around for a good employment lawyer so you're ready in case you need one. I would also be starting a written record of all relevant conversations and incidents detailing when and where it happened, what was said and by whom and names of any witnesses.

As regards your maternity leave, once you reach 25 weeks pg your entitlement to SMP cannot be removed even if your employment with your current employer ends - so that may be what your boss means by your leave not being affected. One important thing to remember is that women on maternity leave who are made redundant have additional rights. You have the right to be given any suitable alternative job (ie same T&Cs) but that may well not be possible in a small organisation like yours. This is a useful link about some of your basic rights during maternity leave: www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/Moneyandworkentitlements/WorkAndFamilies/Pregnancyandmaternityrights/DG_175088

If they had created an identical job to yours in the UK and given it to someone else that would almost certainly be maternity related discrimination which is unlawful as per The Equality Act 2010 - but I'm not sure how the job being in Eastern Europe would effect this situation. I'll have a look if I get a chance for some case law.

Katie can I ask a question please (so sorry OP, very teeny weeny thread hijack)

The 'right' to return to your existing role - does that mean just as in job title or the actual job role? Ie. If someone was account manager for, say, Tesco with a clearly defined way of working, but their job title was just "Account Manager", when you go back from ordinary maternity leave could they put you as Account Manager for a completely different company with totally different methods of working? The position for AM for Tesco still exists and infact the person on ML trained her replacement up before she left btw.

Hijack over - sorry OP.

Essentially you have the right to return to the same job - same duties, responsibilities, place of work, status etc etc. There are exceptions to this, for example in genuine redundancy situations and there is some legislation that distinguishes between Ordinary Maternity Leave (OML) which is the first 26 weeks and Additional Maternity Leave (AML) which is from week 26-52 where an employer can offer another post with same terms and conditions if it is really not possible to return to the old one. This link here explains it quite well and shows that it's a bit of a minefield: www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1080903532&type=RESOURCES

So in the example you describe mustdo that would probably not be allowed because it is a significant change (new location, employer, possibly different duties if that's what "totally different methods of working" means) unless the employee's previous employer sold the business and she was transferred under TUPE - in which case all previous terms and conditions would still apply but some changes to day to day working and culture would likely be expected.

I am loathe to give an example of what would be allowed because I can't give a conclusive one, but just to give an idea (and this example has all the problems of any changing of an employee's job during maternity leave): Your account manager at Tesco looked after the vegetable account where Boggis, Bunce and Bean are the suppliers before she leaves for maternity leave. She takes AML and during her leave the vegetable accounts are given to Giles, Brown and Smith. On her return it is decided that rather than move the accounts back over to our account manager they will stay with Jean, her maternity replacement and our AM will be given the fruit account which is supplied by Boggis, Bunce and Bean because she already has a relationship with those suppliers and Jean has formed a relationship with the new suppliers. Our AM is consulted regarding the change and agrees to the change.

OP this is a good link about protection during maternity leave: www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1080903562&r.i=1080903532&r.l1=1073858787&r.l2=1080898061&r.l3=1080898273&r.s=sc&r.t=RESOURCES&type=RESOURCES

Many thanks KatieM for your wise advice and links, I will read them carefully and you are right, short email, non aggressive, just factual to get as much info as I can, just in case I need to build a case...
Mustdo, no worries, threads are also here to share experiences and info :)

My pleasure. Hope it all just goes away without any drama

It sounds like your employer shouldn't be able to do this. Please get some advice about this! You don't need this hanging over your head whilst being pg and preparing for maternity leave.

thanks Katie (and OP).

Incase it wasnt obvious the person in my example is/was me. And the other role I was given was very different, just with the same job title. When I queried whether returning to the same job meant just in name or duties they said as long as I am still Account Manager then it doesnt matter what role I am doing.

What sticks in my throat is I only took OML to ensure I returned to the same account and it was only on my first day back that I was told I wouldnt be, as the person I trained up as my 'temp' replacement was fully embedded into that role. If Id known Id have took longer but at the time I still thought I had a career with them

well Mustdo what can I say, employers do what suits them first and employees are numbers and interchangeable !

that is the dark side we don't want to face. I used to be a real star of the Admin and Finance team. Now I am just an expendable staff ! I have learnt my lesson, I am dedicated to my job and responsibilities as long as I feel I am being fairly treated. If it starts to go sour, I get in my fighting mood :)

I have no desire to stay within this company anymore. I just want a sensible pay off and get on with my life.

hopefully you will feel better in your new role very soon

mamij : you are right, I have other things on my plate so I will get this sorted and move on, thanks for your support

I can't believe it.

I asked for a written statement of the conversation I had with my boss and he came back writing that the Board is CONSIDERING the said plan but no decision made yet because they have not found the replacement yet and it is just a TENTATIVE timetable....

If they do find the suitable person - and he does not say how long they plan to look for this 5 leg sheep - and if I wish to come back from maternity leave - of course I have never said I would not come back, I just don't know when yet because I have not had the baby yet :) - they will then see if they can find an alternative role, if not they will do me the favor of giving good references !!!! and I will be entitled to redundancy pay as required by law...

How can people be so openly a*hole ? sorry for my bad vocabulary but I need to get this anger out...

Is this not demoting staff ? is this not pushing me to resign ? harassment ? from a moral point of vue. Do you think that dropping this kind of info if it has not been firmly decided by the Board 2 weeks after receiving formal request of maternity leave and 4 days after I announced I had to go for amnio because doctors were not sure about baby's health is a very sensible move ?

Or do you think I am over reacting ?

sorry about the moan :(

You should have written an email to summarise the conversation you had, not asked him to do it.

Write back saying that this is not what you clearly understood from the verbal meeting (basically write down and send what you heard said). send this email cc to HR and BCC to your home email address.

This very same thing happened to me.

From now on, gather all info you possibly can when at work (copies of emails showing you are doing your job, all docs relating to your maternity leave, business planning, personnel deployment etc). Take these things home and keep them in a safe place.

Take home a copy of your employment contract and the company grievance procedures too.

Use your mobile to make a voice recording of all verbal conversations and make it clear (on the tape) that the other person knows the conversation is being recorded. If at all possible avoid verbal communication about all this.

Also, give them no excuse to find fault with you. Do not discuss with any other member of staff. Do not send emails/ make phone calls about this. In fact avoid all personal stuff at work.

The only way to protect yourself is with evidence.

MaternityAction are a charity who know the law about all this.
A quick look at the following pdf gives you some of the answers you need:-
www.maternityaction.org.uk/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/paw.pdf
What happens when I go back? If you go back to work after OML, you have the right to return to exactly the same job.
If you go back to work after AML, you also have the right to return to exactly the same job. But, if your employer can show that it is not reasonably practicable for you to return to the same job, for example, because the job no longer exists, you have the right to be offered a suitable alternative job on very similar terms and conditions

So now you know the law, but the question is how to get your employer to abide by it.

Thank you Backandforth. Actually I wrote to him that I wanted him to confirm that I understood correctly he was saying that my job was to be moved abroad in Sept after the annual audit. He came back with the board considering it and tentative timetable !
I am doing everything you mentioned, gathering emails, evidence, bcc my private email address when Sending emails out to him, forwarding his answers... I have always tried to be up to date in my job, no backlog, no delay, at the moment more than ever I arrive sharp on time in the morning, leave at agreed time, keeping low profile, no long coffee break... I am afraid the company is too small, my boss is also the HR dept, I can't turn to anyone really as the most supportive person I had in mind before is now part of the Board and I don't know if I can trust him anymore.
What was the outcome in your case ?
I agree with you, how can I make them to follow the law ? I need some professional help. Anyone out there ? Verybadmummy, hope you can make contact soon, I PM'd you again today, sorry to be hasseling you. KatieM, are you still around ?

My protagonist was the chairman (who thought that he was above the law) and we had no effective HR either. I couldn't cope with the stress, especially as it was causing pregnancy complications. So I resigned and ended up at an employment tribunal and won. It was good to win but it was a horrible year and it completely overshadowed what should have been a happy time.

To win the case you need evidence and it also helps if they make stupid mistakes. Telling you what they intend was their first major mistake. The second was to put a weak form, of it in writing. My advice would be that you play it very straight, without letting on that you are thinking about your legal rights or a potential case but let them keep on making mistakes like this.

It would be nice to be able to stop it happening but I've asked myself often what i could have done and the answer is nothing because if a company wants to do something, then they will one way or the other.

Do you know about Unfair Dismissal/ Constructive Dismissal/ pregnancy Discrimination? It may be time to read up if you don't.

Do you have legal protection insurance, perhaps bought with your house insurance? My legal bill was £60k, which is why the law is not fair. However, legal cover would take care of most of that.

Many thanks for sharing this with me. I am glad you won and I feel the bitterness.
You are absolutely right, this company wants me out, I will not fight for that because they will find a way to do so. But I can't stand the fact that they rely on my ignorance of the UK law to rip me off my rights.
I will check my house insurance, thanks for the tip, I never think about that.
I must say this is keeping me awake at night, not the best thing to do at 24 weeks of pg, isn't it ?