Can an employer insist on a sick note for every day off?

[corlan]

A colleague has been told that, in future, if he does not produce a sick note for every time he is off sick (even if it's only a day), then he will not receive sick pay.

I find it unbelievable that a company can insist on this policy - it seems wrong on so many levels - has anyone else ever come across this?

(Between you and me, the colleague has had a lot of days off sick and he wasn't always 'sick', if you catch my drift)

self cert for the first 7 days it is pretty standard

I've heard of this before in schools where a child has low attendance.

I'm not expert but if they are on a warning for poor attendance then I suspect they may be able to request this.

I have a vague memory of reading through our staff handbook on sickness and something being mentioned along these lines and I work for civil service

Yes they can, especially if there are attendance issues.

Well they can if they want to pay for it. You can self-certify for the first week, following which a GP will then need to assess you and give a sick note if appropriate. If your work want one for single days off and aren't happy with self-certification, then the GP may refuse and/or ask them to pay for it. This is because it is an abuse of the system and GPs aren't at the beck and call of some company.

I have had to evoke this before due to displinery process being followed. If any fees were charged by his gp we would refund.

Btw why is it wrong on so many levels? what about the fact your colleague is skiving, he is abusing the absence policy.

Well, they clearly don't believe he really is sick on some of those days off, so why shouldn't they ask for independent verification? Why is that "wrong on so many levels?"
Although I can see it would be frustrating if they asked the same of everyone, in the name of "fairness."

Yes they can

It's a possible sanction mentioned in our Sickness policy.
Any costs incurred would have to be met by the employee.

I think if an employee has such a poor attendance record for sickness absence without good reason then yes they can. I think its very fair TBH.

Has he been through formal meetings re his absence? What does ebsickness policy say, esp once formal procedures are in place.?

But yes, they can insist and at your friends cost too.

What is more "wrong on so many levels" is that your friend is deliberately defrauding his company by pretending to be ill when he is not. I hope he is not sharing your sense of outrage that he is now being pulled up on this!

I'm assuming by sick pay you mean company sick pay rather than SSP which he wouldn't get for very short absences only. Assuming that's correct then the company has no legal obligation to pay for those days off and can of course put conditions on payments. Similarly, if your friend has a history of problem absence then a reasonable step in addressing that is making sure that every absence is genuine, and if the employer has reason to believe that is not the case, fine to require medical evidence.

I'm also intrigued as to how this is "wrong on so many levels"?

Thanks for all your comments.

I felt it was wrong as it is tantamount to saying 'we don't trust you' to the employee. My colleague does skive but my worry is that this might be done to people who have genuinely been ill a lot.

Another reason I felt it was wrong, was that GP's time shouldn't be taken up with writing sick notes every time someone has a day off work. Also, it's so hard to get a non-urgent GP appointment where I live, that I'd worry an employee might just not bother and take a genuine sick day as unpaid leave.

I just asked out of interest - my colleague is a bit put out by it but knows he's not in a position to complain!

It isnt an NHS duty, it would need to be reimbursed separately, so should not effect the GP's NHS patients.

Well they don't trust the employee, as is made clear by the fact that he's had to have a warning about this.

in my employment this is possible. it is mentioned in the sickness policy once sickness levels reach a certain point or where there are lots of one off sickness, or certain patterns of sickness (when its sunny, when its half term, friday/monday). I beleive, but not sure, that this would form part of the formal processes of dealing with those concerns, either on its own or in conjunction with other action points.

I am sure also that the employer will re-imburse the cost of the medical certificates if it is requested during the period that would normally be covered by a self cert.

And, honestly, if he has had several days that are not sick, his employers most likely suspect this is the case, hence their direction to provide a self cert.

So, your colleague skives, you and presumably others, know he skives, yet you're all "put out" that your employer is effectively saying they don't trust him? No shit, Sherlock!

It would be an unfair sanction to impose on someone with a reasonable record of absences - I don't mean not having had many sick days but not having had any of the patterns that Pavlov mentions. But for someone falling into this category, I'm not sure what else could be done - of course he has to be able to go off sick if he actually is sick and this will allow for that.

I work for a small-ish retail company and we have had to (for new employees) put in place a standard non-payment of sick pay for the first three days; in line with statutory sick pay.

It's a shame for those that are genuinely ill, but some people were starting to take advantage - and were stupid enough to post about it on Facebook.

I think you've probably nailed it - it must be the patterns of absence that give someone away - that would make sense. Lots of Fridays and Mondays off probably set bells ringing!

Well, how on earth would you suggest the company should deal with persistent skiving, then, OP? If they don't ask for a doctor's note, how are they supposed to distinguish between the genuine cases and the piss-takers? And why should they trust someone who is obviously defrauding the company?

I have a member of my team who miraculously falls ill every half term & school holiday. Her repeated absences put unfair pressure on other members of the team - why should they have to work harder to cover her absences. I don't trust her, no, and if she is absent again, I want her to prove that she is genuinely ill, so I have said that she will have to provide a doctor's note for any future absences.

Dumping work on other colleagues by taking a sickie when you're not sick - now that really is wrong on so many levels. And it would be wrong of the company to turn a blind eye.

Corian, you still don't seem to get the point that people are making here. Are you deliberately ignoring your colleague's contribution to this situation by carrying on about the unfairness of trying to get a doctor's appointment, the cost to the NHS etc?

Forget about worrying about what might or might not happen to other employees in the company. The only person who seems to have been asked to supply a sick note on every occasion is your colleague who is deliberately defrauding his company. I think you/he would be better occupied in worrying about the financial effect on your company and the implications for your other colleagues who have to cover this person's work, rather than worrying about the doctor's time in writing sick notes. If this a genuine concern to your colleague, then the answer is fairly simple, isn't it?! He can stop skiving!

Please stop facilitating his "poor me" attitude and suggest that he faces up to the consequence of his poor behaviour instead.

Get off your high horse annh . I asked a question out of genuine interest. I've not defended my colleagues behaviour anywhere.