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Original poster

Can they tell me I can't take this as a sick day?

28 replies

BatCave · 02/03/2012 14:22

Saturday night my mum was rushed to ICU very poorly - we had a phone call at 02:30 and despite being exhausted (I had had 10 hours sleep in 3 days due to working nights and having to look after DD) I did the 45min drive to be with her. I also phoned in sick to work for Sunday morning - due to start at 07:30.

My boss phoned me Monday morning asking why I'd been off. I explained thoroughly. The next thing he says to me is "Oh so you weren't actually sick then" and proceeded to tell me I had to take it as a day off and make up the hours. I don't get a choice. I told him that I'd have hardly been fit for work (I'm a nurse in an NHS hospital) and he shrugged this off.

I'm close to breaking point, I'm 10 weeks pregnant and sick as a dog. My sickness record is impeccable (3 days off in 3 years including my previous pregnancy) I'm exhausted from working nights and not sleeping afterwards - instead I have no option but to look after my toddler. I do 20 hours a week and the thought of having to 'make up' these hours makes me feel sick. I want to discuss this with him but I don't know how much fight I have in me.

I just want to know, is he allowed to do this to me, is it worth my while trying to fight it? He is known to be 'difficult' when it comes to time off and has a bee in his bonnet about his employees taking maternity leave.

OP posts:

DottyDot · 02/03/2012 14:25

Hi - if you're a nurse you'll be under AFC ts and cs - you should be entitled to carer's leave? Check with your HR department.

IDontDoIroning · 02/03/2012 14:28

Sick leave is for when you are sick. Does your employer have other emergency leave schemes for sick relatives or children. If they don't have such a scheme then you will have to take annual leave or unpaid leave or make up the time.

Original poster

BatCave · 02/03/2012 14:32

DottyDot thanks I will look into that, IDontDoIroning - I do understand that, but I'm also trying to make the argument that I told him I wasn't fit for work, I was exhausted and had had no sleep, not to mention the stress. If I'd told him I had a bloody headache and couldn't come to work then there wouldn't be a problem?

OP posts:

tantrumsandballoons · 02/03/2012 14:32

You might have to take as unpaid leave although when I had a family emergency I was able to take 2 days annual leave, it would not be a sick day though, if it wasn't you who was sick
That probably feels a bit harsh right now, a lot of employers do give emergency days off, maybe you should ask about that?

IAmSherlocked · 02/03/2012 14:33

I'm not sure why you phoned in sick when you weren't sick - I'm not surprised your boss objects to that, I'm afraid. As IDontDoIroning says, you should have said you needed the time off unpaid to deal with an emergency, as is your right here. It's a horrible situation to be in - but as far as your boss is concerned, you've lied to him and he's not happy about it!

Original poster

BatCave · 02/03/2012 14:38

I didn't at any point lie, when I phoned work I simply told them I wouldn't be in, as would be normal practice. I can't see that he'd be annoyed about that.

OP posts:

zipzap · 02/03/2012 14:45

Not ideal I know but could you tell hr you are pregnant and say that your morning sickness is getting really bad at the moment? It sounds like it really is- it's not that you are pretending to have bad pg sickness.

Then you could tell your boss that there are other reasons that you are ill but due to his insensitive nature you can't tell him ATM.

Just because he is an arse about people who are pg, it doesn't Change the fact that it is making you feel very ill currently - you need to take a little time off to give you a chance to recover. Would your doc sign you off for a few days?

Congratulations on your pg; and hope you and your mum both feel lots better very soon!

IAmSherlocked · 02/03/2012 14:48

Oh, OK - sorry, I must have misread. I thought you said you'd phoned in sick.

Original poster

BatCave · 02/03/2012 16:04

IAmSherlocked, obviously you didn't misread. I should have been clearer. I used 'phoned in sick' as a turn of phrase, meaning "I phoned work to tell them that I wouldn't be in". As I think I previously mentioned, I am just a little exhausted at the moment.

OP posts:

Original poster

BatCave · 02/03/2012 16:12

Thank you zipzap, my mum is recovering well. My boss already knows I'm pregnant though, and I don't like to take time off if I can help it, I always feel like I'm letting people down.

Looks like I'll just have to suck it up, although I have no idea where I'm going to fit those hours in. Thanks everyone for the advice.

OP posts:

DottyDot · 02/03/2012 16:20

Noooo - check the carer's leave policy first!

ruddynorah · 02/03/2012 16:30

Can you take it as an unpaid emergency leave day? Is the issue that you don't want to make the time up or that you don't want to be unpaid?

ShouldDoHousework · 02/03/2012 16:37

BatCave - You are entitled to take it as sick leave as you were not fit to work so cannot be made to make up the hours, you could also take it as compassionate leave as that would cover emergency admission of close family member. Check your hospital policies re, Special leave and sickness.

QueenCadbury · 02/03/2012 16:41

Definately talk to HR. your hospital will have policies about emergency leave etc.

SwivellingDicksTidyWife · 02/03/2012 21:57

You normally get up to 5 days (prorata) of paid carers leave with your job - do check. Or you could agree to take it as TOIL and pay the hours back if you prefer, but I would ask them to mark it as carers leave - this is exactly what it is there for.

He is right that it isn't sick leave though, unless you are unwell yourself. Hope your mum is on the mend soon.

SecondTimeLucky · 02/03/2012 22:48

So sorry to hear about your mum.

It's not sick leave - I disagree with ShouldDo that simply not being fit for work makes it sick leave. By that reckoning a less scrupulous person could go out drinking all night and legitimately claim 'sick leave' the next day. Or spend all night MNing and then claim 'sick leave'.

But others are right, doesn't the NHS have paid carers leave?

On a separate note, why are you working nights then looking after your toddler all day? That doesn't sound realistic long term, esp when pregnant. Is there any way of getting some support?

Original poster

BatCave · 03/03/2012 08:40

Thank you all, its given me something to think about, I was unaware of the carer's leave bit. To be honest I'd happily take it unpaid, its doing the extra hours that I can't deal with at the moment.

That is what I was thinking, ShouldDo - my midwife actually told me that I should have got it off due to the stress and exhaustion. But I guess looking at other replies that isn't the case. I'm glad for the clarity, it will help with the discussion with my boss I intend. I'll have a look at policies before I talk to him though. I didn't make a fuss when asked to make up hours when my DD was sick a while back, yet its frustrating when I know people who DO go out on the lash all night then phone in sick saying the are unwell - it doesn't get questioned. My friends at the moment are actually urging me to get signed off due to exhaustion.

SecondTimeLucky - You are right - I don't think it is realistic, I feel very trapped. If I didn't work nights I'd have to work twice as many hours AND pay for childcare so feel like I'm in a no win situation. Things will be changing soon, we are moving nearer the in-laws so will have more support plus I'm looking into her starting nursery/childminder once we move. The trouble is I work different shifts and need childcare that is flexible on the day. But that is another story I guess!

OP posts:

VegemiteSandwich · 03/03/2012 08:46

I'm another NHS employee. In our trust (I understand that this varies and isn't so much an AfC thing) you have to take annual leave for this sort of thing. Carer's leave applies (for us) when you have to take a day off work and have no annual leave allowance left. For example, last February I had to take 2 days off work to look after the husband after surgery. I had one day annual leave allowance left so had to use this, but they gave me the second day "free" as carer's leave.

HTH!

gamerwidow · 03/03/2012 09:21

Unfortunately your work are not legally obliged to give you paid carers leave. You are entitled to take time off to care for a family member but you can be made to take this time from your annual leave or as unpaid leave.

I'm another NHS employee and in our trust we no longer have carers leave and we would have to take time as annual leave or as unpaid leave in this situation. Check your terms and conditions and see where you stand.

It does sound like your boss is being very unsympathetic, if you are prepared to take it as annual leave or unpaid he shouldn't be bullying you into making up the hours. Usually there is some discretion to be used in these cases and I think he is being harder on you than he needs to be.

If you belong to a union it might be worth having an informal chat with them first to find out exactly where you stand.

trixymalixy · 03/03/2012 10:03

Sorry to hear about your Mum. I think in your situation, my boss would have just told me to take the time off and not noted it down as any kind of leave although maybe compassionate leave if pushed.

However he is right, it is not sick leave, and your daughter being sick is not sick leave either and of course you should have to take it as unpaid or make the time up by the letter of your contract. Sick leave is for when you are sick, not when someone else in your family is sick and I find it a bit bizarre that you think otherwise.

In your case however I would have actually told your boss that you were ill yourself, because you quite clearly were not well, rather than your Mum being ill. I'm sure any doctor would have signed you off with stress.

Good luck op.

amistillsexy · 03/03/2012 10:11

I think the difficulty will be that things like commpassionate leave, carer's leave, etc need to be agreed in advance.

This was an emergency situation, but you didn't explain when you rang up what the situation was, so it sounds like your nasty boss is just making an issue out of it.

Funnily enough, I have been pregnant in 2 different jobs, and both bosses completely changed their attitudes to me taking days off once I became pregnant...You don't think it pisses them off do you?

trixymalixy · 03/03/2012 10:58

I don't agree that compassionate leave needs to be arranged in advance. If someone dies unexpectedly you wouldn't be able to arrange it in advance or have to go into work to arrange it.

FourThousandHoles · 03/03/2012 11:05

I would speak to your HR department about it.

TBH I can't see the problem with you taking it as unpaid leave rather than making up the time, have you asked your boss if that's a possibility? Perhaps if HR notify him/her that it's OK, he'd have to comply?

If you are really struggling I'd get yourself signed off sick.

Really hope your Mum is OK, it's scary when things like that happen.

SecondTimeLucky · 03/03/2012 15:32

Just to clarify following a couple of comments above, OP, you do have a legal right to unpaid time off for family emergencies. It is normally called emergency leave for care of dependants, and it is statutory for every British employee, so not dependant on your employer. You cannot be made to make up the time - it's just that this might be the only option if paid carer's leave is not offered by your employer and you can't afford to lose the money.

hope you get it sorted.

SauvignonBlanche · 03/03/2012 15:44

NHS nurse/manager here.
I don't think you can now class it as sick leave but you could have done so at the time.
Your trusty should have a policy on Special leave, ask HR. Our policy does rely a little on the manager's discretion, though guidelines are attached. Your situation would be covered by this, but it is not an automatic right.
Your attendance record sounds good, I would take that into consideration.

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