Do you feel that society values and supports mothers as well as it could?

[motherwifeme]

Hello!

My fellow blogger, Bargain Mummy Buys and I have started a meme in tandem today, called A Mother's Work Meme.

The basis for the meme is this thought:

Our society doesn?t value or support mothers as well as it could.

Brits pay more for childcare than anywhere else in the world, this combined with flimsy legislation to support mothers, is either discouraging many of us from returning to work or making life extremely tough.

We have tagged some of our nearest and dearest bloggers to kick off the meme-ing, but it would be wonderful if anyone with strong views on this topic joined in, either by leaving a comment here in this discussion forum or, if you feel really strongly, by completing the meme - A Mother's Work Meme over on www.motherwifeme.com

All contributions are being collated and will become part of our ongoing campaign to raise awareness and do something about this issue.

Thank you x

I feel strongly about this issue - but in opposition to what you are saying.

It is not societies role to "value" mothers.

In this country we get amazing free at point of delivery health and maternity care (my life has been saves three times over since my daughter birth a month ago). We get statutory paid time off work and our jobs are protected while we take time off.

Quite amazing compared to some other countries.

Hi hairytale
So sorry you've been so ill after the birth of your daughter - hope you're starting to feel better.

Yes, we get good maternity care, but that doesn't negate the fact that discrimination against pregnant women and working mums is still prevalent. It's great if you haven't personally encountered such discrimination, but many women will agree that their careers suffer as a direct result of motherhood. Things have improved hugely over the past 100 years, but that doesn't mean we have equality yet.

Hello motherwifeme, it's great that you're raising awareness of the problems many working mums face!

Goodness hairy is all ok now?

OP I'm interested to know why you feel legislation in the UK is "flimsy"?

flowery yes thank you - dd (born in Jan) was back to back so labour was long, I had PROM, and had a forceps birth and needed a blood transfusion as I didn't stop bleeding and lost 3ltrs. Then last week I had an op for retained placenta and lost a lot of blood again.

It would be interesting to hear exactly what people think are the issues- I firmly believe childcare is an issue for parents and families (not just women and mothers).

Could the op elaborate on what the issues actually are? And what is flimsily about legislation? Ther is much more solid legislation here than in the US.

Being a SAHM I dont feel particularly valued by society (by anyone for that matter!!), but I am also realise that this is a choice we have made for our family. I cannot expect anyone else to take responsibilty for the gaping hole there will be in my CV, as I could have gone back to work.

I would maybe like to think that employers could see some of the jobs we do as mothers as valuable skills - I think there is a big assumption by people who've never done it that it's all coffee mornings and nonsense.

I think that in all honesty children and work dont mix all that well, so whether it is mothers or fathers, there is usually someone who has to make sacrifices in their career.

As the pp said, our Mat leave/pay conditions are really very good, but it would be untenable to extend this any further.

We do have expensive childcare (the reason I dont work atm) but childcare practitioners are by no means ever raking it in.

I do think that cutting child benefit is a big two fingers to SAHM's - but thats probably because we will lose out as only just over the cut off.

Speaking as a woman in mid 40s with older teens, my view is that things here in the UK in 2012 are pretty good. With issues as huge as parenting, work and childcare, there will never be complete concensus. And there will always be some people who think more could be done. But let me just point to some of the differences between when I had my first baby, and how it is now:

Then: 3 months paid ML. 3 additional months unpaid (which most mums couldn't afford to take due to sky high mortgage interest rates)
Now: 9 months paid ML. Option of a full year off. Many more women seem to be able to afford the additional leave nowadays

Then: no paternity leave. It was entirely normal for dads to only take the actual day of the birth off, and be back in the office next day
Now: 2 weeks paid paternity leave

Then: no tax credits. If you needed to work, but were low waged, it was tough.
Now: if you work over 16 hours a week, you are entitled to all sorts of top ups if you're on a low wage, including up to most of your childcare costs paid

Then: far less choice about childcare. Day nurseries rare. After school clubs virtually non existent
Now: greater choice of either nursery/ childminder/ after school clubs.

Then: quite normal to pay own childcare in full from the day you returned to work (ie baby 12 weeks old) until the day they started school.
Now: equivalent of two days free care from age 3 upwards

Then: no right to request flexible working for parents
Now: automatic right to request it (obviously not guaranteed you'll get it, but employer is obliged to consider it according to the criteria)

So, to sum up, no, I don't agree . I also think that childcare should never be seen as a 'womens' issue. It is about men too.

I see myself as a parent (rather than a mother). My children have two parents.

Dh and I each take time off work to deal with ill dc. Dh and I both take our dc to doctors and hospital appointments. My Mum and Mil have both taken holidays to look after our ill dc.

We pay a fortune in childcare.

Both careers are equally important.

I have been promoted since having dc1.

Yes, I feel valued as a parent. My dc will hopefully one day pay much need tax.

much needed tax.

I think that you should be entitled to change your job to part time or a job share after maternity leave or you should be made redundant with a pay off. Too many businesses refuse flexible working not because it is impossible but that they can not be bothered even trying it!

Flexible working isn't always possible for all businesses though, or at least not always on the terms the employee wants. It's a balancing act, because its not right if small businesses are at risk of going under because of too much legislation. It would also backfire against women if employers were forced to let everyone go part time or get a massive pay off whenever they got pregnant!

It would be good if childcare were tax-deductible for everyone. Not all companies have salary sacrifice schemes for childcare vouchers. I don't think the self-employed are able to declare childcare against tax (although I may be wrong - I just never heard of that option being available.)

I agree with Hairy and most of the others. The medical care - all free - is fantastic. Maternity leave is very generous. Parents get support with childcare costs. Child Benefit is there for all who need it. That's before we even start on medical care for the dcs, education....

Seoladair- 100% agree.

Personally I didn't resent spending a lot on childcare. Ok, it hurts the pocket, but my children are infinitely more valuable than a house or car or evenings out- and people don't mind spending on those things

What I DID resent, massively, was that I was paying childcare out of taxed income, and my childminder was then paying tax on what I paid her. Childcare is a DIRECT cost incurred by working. If you don't work, you don't need it. There can be no clearer correlation than that. It makes me mad that if you run your own business all sorts of things, far more tenuously related, are tax deductible. Or if you are very rich and employ a housekeeper, Gardener, chauffeur etc, they are tax deductible. Yet if you pay someone to look after your kids, it isnt

It's so wrong

"I think that you should be entitled to change your job to part time or a job share after maternity leave or you should be made redundant with a pay off. Too many businesses refuse flexible working not because it is impossible but that they can not be bothered even trying it!"

Good grief! Really?

You expect businesses to adapt regardless of how that effects them, to support your choice to have children?

I am hoping to go from five to four days when I return bit am fully aware my employers may not be able to accommodate that - so will have to return for five if that's the case - and I had my dd knowing that. (dp will be a SAHD)

Could it be better? Yes, for families and employers. I think there is a disparity in the law and the application of it sometimes. I think there is not enough work done on the part of government to show how some laws and policies translate into practice and the potential benefits of that to employers. Too much emphasis is put on rights and entitlements of the employee and not enough "what's in it for the employer?". Without that key point things won't get better. It's not employees who influence company policy so much as employers.

Yes childcare costs are shocking.

Yes discrimination against some people is shocking.

Yes it would be good to have more tax breaks for childcare.

Yes it would be good to have more employment rights for fathers who are not employees.

Yes I think care of a baby should be split between the parents as they see fit and not perscribed by the state (ie I support extending the additional parental leave (APL) regulations prior to 20 weeks post partum if parents so wish).

Do I think we need more legislation? No (with the exception of loosening the criteria for APL). The current legislation is actually very good but the application and understanding is often poor.

I hate that childcare and parental responsibility is seen as a woman's problem. I hate that personal choices about having a family should be an employer's problem. There are positives all round to having a child and employing parents. Finding them and exploiting then for the greater good makes sense.

---

Congratulations Hairy!!! :)

callmemrs

I agree. My DH and I were on an lowish income when my DS was born 15 years ago. I had to go back to work full time after 6 weeks as we could not afford for me to be off any longer. We had to save up before my DS was born to cover my wage while I was off.

No tax credits, no free childcare, just child benefit. We were lucky that my parents looked after my DS until he went to school as I honestly do not think he would be here if they hadn't. We would have loved another child but the financial circumstances were not right and I suppose we were not prepared to get into major debt. As it was we were always overdrawn but kept the wolf from the door.

Ironically now we were are in a better financial situation (I am part-time and my DH has a good job) they are about to take away the only benefit I have claimed (child benefit) despite never claiming a penny of anything else. That makes me very bitter.

I think working mums today have it pretty good.