what's the employment/leave situation RE child having an operation.

[YuleingFanjo]

do I have to take annual leave? Doesn't seem to fall under parental leave...

Theres no legal entitlement to paid time off. But there is nothin to stop you applying for parental leave or unpaid time off - or yea, you can apply for annual leave. If you have annual leave left to take, an employer would be fair in expecting you to exhaust this before taking additional unpaid leave.

Do your terms allow any paid time for such exceptional child care needs?

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Parental leave doesn't exclude operations - it is time to care for a child so seems fit for purpose here.

"Caring for a child does not necessarily mean being with the child 24 hours a day. Parental leave might be taken simply to enable you to spend more time with your young child. Examples of the way parental leave might be used include:

straight after your maternity, paternity or adoption leave
spending more time with your child in their early years
time with your child during a stay in hospital"

Ah - thank you :)

My boss has said that parental leave doesn't cover an operation because it's pre-planned rather than emergency.

I am happy to take annual leave (rather than unpaid) but wasn't really happy with her reasons IYSWIM.

My policy says

"The majority of personal circumstances which necessitate time-off work should be accommodated within the normal annual leave allocation. In exceptional circumstances, however, where this is not possible, and subject to operational requirements, managers may grant leave on full pay up to 10 days in any year. In particular, it is intended that such leave should be used for those with caring responsibilities, or when employees have to deal with unforeseen personal circumstances e.g. bereavement, which cannot reasonably be dealt with outside working hours."

so I can see why she would prefer me to use my annual leave but the bit which says "In particular, it is intended that such leave should be used for those with caring responsibilities, or when employees have to deal with unforeseen personal circumstances e.g. bereavement, which cannot reasonably be dealt with outside working hours." makes me think she could, if she wanted, give me exceptional leave as an operation on my child = caring responsibilities. Ho hum.

You haven't indicated how much time off you would need? When is the operation taking place? If it is an emergency and happening imminently, I would expect them to be generous in allowing paid time off as per your policy, at least for some days. If you have some notice, then it is not "unforeseen circumstances" because you know it is happening so should either be annual leave or parental leave if there is enough time to apply for that and you are planning on taking at least a week off (the smallest block you can apply for).

Your boss doesn't understand parental leave. Parental leave is specifically not for emergencies.

Flowery is (as always) right about parental leave.

I think I understand why her boss might be getting confused.

Where I work there is what used to be called Parental leave, and is now called something like Carers leave (I think they changed it to avoid confusion, plus the remit changed to include stuff like elderly parents , funerals etc), which sounds like what you have discribed Yulingfanjo. Its classed as an addtional benefit to allow you deal with emergencies.

Parental leave is a statutory obligation to allow you up to 13 weeks off unpaid in blocks of one week, before your child is 5 (or 18 if disabled) so is something completely different.

You dont work for a bank do you? (Don't shoot me )

I give 2 days compassionte leave for a parent to accompany a child in hospital.

But i realise this is not standard.

I think the minimum I would need is 2 days but I need to talk to the nursery about if they would take him straight after an op if he is still needing pain releif. Basically I am told he may need pain relief for three or more days after the op. His operation is on a Monday afternoon so I will need Monday and Tuesday off for sure...

The operation is in 19 days time, I have just found out the date but knew he would be having the operation some time in the first part of 2012.

You are right - what I am asking for is calle 'exceptional leave' not parental leave.

I don't work for a bank but for a publically funded employer.

PS, I don't think my boss wants to give me exceptional leave is what I am saying.

My dd had an operation (only in one night). I had to take annual leave which I think is completely reasonable. I work in the NHS.

Yeah - it is reasonable and I honestly don't really mind taking the annual leave I have saved for this purpose but at the same time I am a bit 'meh' about the interpretation of the leave policy.

I asked about Parental leave (though I meant exceptional), she answered about parental leave in a way which said I would have to take annual leave when really I could ask for, and should be allowed to take, unpaid parental leave.

Now I have read the policy for Exceptional leave I can see that it is at her discretion but am too scared to ask.

" however, where this is not possible"

This bit reads to me like they want you to exhaust annual leave first.

I think it's probably the managers discretion to allow acceptional leave or not. :(

it's fine. She called it Domestic Leave which is what they used to call it.

Personally I think I could probably push it and ask for 'exceptional leave' for 2 days (which is what I suggested - then the rest as annual leave) as a child needing to stay in hospital is exceptional and would come under childcare issues. Going to speak to the nursery about their policy RE him going in after the op. It could be that I have to take a week off.

There's a lot of confusion still going on here over terms.

You asked for Parental Leave, although you actually meant something else. Your employer was correct in refusing that as it should be taken in blocks of a week or more and you probably only want a few days. Statutory parental leave is also unpaid so you may not have wanted that anyway.

Your employer seems to have been confused between Parental Leave and time off for dependents in telling you that the refusal was because the operation was pre-planned and not an emergency. In fact, a pre-planned operation would be a good use of Parental Leave normally but not in this case for the reason given above.

You say you meant to ask for Exceptional Leave. I don't know what the "Exceptional leave" you refer to is, it doesn't have a meaning in employment legislation to my knowledge. However, it may be what your company call the policy you refer to in one of your posts. This sounds similar to leave for dependents except it is paid and at the discretion of your company. However, a policy like this would normally be intended to cover an emergency situation where you need time off in a hurry but perhaps have used up your allocation of annual leave or where your company feels that granting (unpaid) leave for dependants would cause financial hardship, which they are in a position to help you avoid. In this instance, it really does seem that your employer is quite reasonable in asking you to use annual leave for the few days that you require, although they have confused things by giving you an incorrect reason for refusing your request for parental leave/exceptional leave.

sorry - in my work they call it 'exceptional leave' and it used to be called 'Domestic leave' as that is what my boss called it in the email - sorry to throw another type of leave in there

I was indeed incorrect to ask for parental leave, that's not what I wanted. I wanted the same kind of leave that I got when the nursery rang me to tell me DS had conjunctivitis and must go home - that's marked on my leave calendar as 'exceptional leave' also.

I am probably being cheeky to make that request, luckily I do have some annual leave left which I can take.

Incidentally I once put in some annual leave to cover the fact that my mum was unable to look after my son on the day she usually does. When I put it through the holiday booking system the people in charge of tat decided to change it to 'exceptional leave' without asking me as they could see from the emails to my boss that it was due to a childcare issue.

Anyhoo - I am taking leave but I am still a bit hrrmphed by the reasoning used... that it has to be an emergency - not true.