potential bad ref so do I have to put this job on my cv?

[MrsNortham]

right so I am currently employed and have been there for over 4 years, i am currently facing a disciplinary for something I did not do, I donlt think they have a leg to stand on but they want me out and I want to leave what ever the outcome as I don;t feel I can work there anymore after the above

Im not going to get into what the disciplinary is about as I have been told I am not to tell anyone as it's confidential but I will be contacting ACAS this morning about it

But on applying for a new job do I have to add this job to my employment history?I know that they will give me a bad reference or if I'm asked why I have left ( if I don't get sacked) even though I have done nothing wrong it will out me in a bad light

I was just going to tell potential employers that I have been a SAHM for the last 6 years and am now ready to get back into the workplace as childcare is not so much an issue now

thanks anyone for any help and advice

My feeling is that this would be risky if for no other reason than I think you would end up on the wrong tax code, this would eventually come to light via the payroll team when HMRC tried to re-code you, and then it would look like a deception. That's a guess, but you would normally be expected to provide a P45 from your old job and I think not doing so would be suspicious.

I would play it straight - under the circumstances I suspect your employer would give a 'dates only' reference, i.e. confirming you'd been employed there and nothing else. I really wouldn't lie about your employment history, it's too risky.

Best of luck to you, it sounds like a very stressful situation.

You should declare it but you don't have to name them as a reference. Last employer would be self evident frorm your P45 anyway.

thanks I'd best put that on my cv then :(

Could I put the job on my cv or employment history but not include them as a reference if I am still working there?

Or would any job offer mean that I would start working elsewhere and then they would sack me?

would my previous employer be bound to put a disciplinary on the reference iykwim

I really feel that even though they cannot prove I've done what I am accused of that they are putting a black mark against my name anyway it's just a bit of a mare tbh

I have just finished some training on this (public sector) and we've been told that if candidates score well at interview and you wish to offer the post you can't not give someone the job because of a bad reference (dont ask what the point of references are because it makes no sense to me either)

So I would declare dates but offer references from elsewhere.

Brilliant thank you feel much more positive now have been in touch with Acas too and things seem less dire
Thank you :)

I offered someone a job "subject to references", and the reference from her last employer was awful. I phoned the woman up, and asked her for a verbal reference, which she refused to give. I liked the person and offered them the job anyway - I felt that the reference and conversation I had had with the former boss said more about them than the person I was offering the job to. I spoke to one of the earlier referees, who gave a really glowing reference, and was very enthusiastic on the phone, so I went with my gut instinct. Which was the right thing to do.

"we've been told that if candidates score well at interview and you wish to offer the post you can't not give someone the job because of a bad reference"

Seriously?! So if someone you've never met before is good at interviews and ticks all the boxes convincingly, you have to disregard the opinion of people who have seen them performing on the job?

References are definitely not the be all and end all, and should not be taken at face value without caution and without bearing in mind possible ulterior motives of those giving the reference, absolutely. But really, to be told you must disregard the informed opinion of their ex line-manager if someone performs well in an hour-long interview? No matter what that opinion is, how much information they have to back it up and how relevant it is to the job you are offering?

Bonkers!

I would be suspicious if someone had been employed somewhere for 4 years but didn't want me to take up references from there. Having said that OP I imagine your employer would probably give a basic dates-only reference which you can say is policy rather than a reflection on you. You could check this with HR once you've resigned. I'm sure they'll be happy to reduce their legal liability wrt a reference by giving basic info only.

Yes seriously. We raised the question of why bother having references but they couldn't answer that. The mind boggles.

People don't give bad references any more as they would leave themselves open to being sued.

A 'bad' refernce would just be non-committal, non-glowing or even a refusal to give one.

don't lie on a cv, ever

truth outs eventually

i have recruited a thousand people with S**T references, but NEVER with someone who lies on a CV

Where I work, the policy is to get references from current employer or last employer if unemployed. They won't accept a previous one by itself.
On saying that, at interview, we always ask if people are happy to have referees contacted and if the information is correct. If I was interviewing, if you said you may get a non committal reference, and offered a 3rd referee I'd be happy enough. (sometimes that job is just a bad fit)
People can give a bad reference by the way, only if it is factual though.
Not lazy for instance (subjective) but you could say punctuality an issue - but you'd need to have a record somewhere. So If you were always late, but I never tackled it with you, I couldn't bring it up.

I have to be honest though, I once interviewed someone who had been sacked from the previous job, and had done community service , all relating to the same thing, and although I tried to be open minded, I was aware of looking for things through the interview that I could use as a reason not to offer the post. (I'm not proud of this) I did feel guilty at the same time and I was relieved when someone else interviewed so well that they had to be offered the job.

What wetaugust said.
People arent generally allowed to give bad references any more .

I was given a slightly bad reference which I was livid about because it was linked to my dyslexia. It said something about her feeling I struggled with written reports that were sometimes badly organised and that she felt this "may" be due to my dyslexia

You can always say you don't want current job contacted unless you were offered the position (standard stuff) but also maybe explain that you feel that they wouldn't be your best reference due to personal issues.

they are allowed

Only a problem if the reference is unfair or misleading. So you do have protection, but if you have been a poor employee and they can back it up, they can give you a bad reference.
In practice though, people tend to provide no information as opposed to negative information.

Lisa, new employers couldn't or shouldn't have held that against you as a reference.
And in the old job, if it was true, then you should have had supportive measures to help you deal with the issues.
That wouldn't be a bad reference to me at all. That says more about the employers than it does about you.

Melty thanks. I had the job so didn't effect me getting the job. My old manager had a huge issue with my dyslexia, mainly because it wasn't disclosed at interview I think. She couldn't understand why I could write a 4 page report easily (when in these reports everything had a title and subsection) but I couldn't get a 40 page court report in order that she wanted
She did get my a talking pc which I meant to speak into and it types but it was hell to use, took forever to set up and she wouldnt pay for training on software. Hence why I left!

I had a similar problem at my last job and was really worried that I would not get another job due to the reference situation.
I got the union involved and they sorted the situation without me having to face the former employer. The union told me that it is actually illegal to provide a 'bad reference' and I got one confirming that I had been employed on those dates, and about my attendance record. There was no mention made of the incident which forced my resignation.
I got the next job on my own merit through performance at the interview. i did mention at my interview that there had been a breakdown in the relationship between myself and my former employer. My line manager has been very honest with me since getting the job and told me that when they heard about what had happened they were a bit concerned but were so impressed with me decided to go with 'gut instinct' and offered me the job.

Hope it all goes well and ACAS can resolve the situation for you. Ask them to get an 'open reference' for you that you can use for future job applications.

at people on here genuinely believing that job offers cannot be withdrawn because of bad references and that people can no longer give bad references. Wrong on both counts.

Anyways, with regards to the OP, I would advise:

1. You could lose it from your CV but I would fire someone who did that if I found them out. The tax coding could bring it to light (but probably not if it's a sizeable company - the person doing payroll would not be the person handling your CV), Even if it didn't emerge strait away, you'd forever be worrying about being found out.
2. If the disciplinary is a 'biggie' and you think mutual trust has been lost, you may want to consider suggesting to your current bosses tthat the atmosphere is not good from either side but that you would be prepared to leave the firm quietly in return for a compromise agreement with regard to the nature of the reference they give (ie a 'dates only' one).

This still leaves you with the issue of what to say when you are asked about reasons for leaving the previous firm. I'd suggest something along the lines of "I felt my career there had stalled and didn't think there were opportunities to progress further because of a couple of disagreements which left me on conflict with mgmt", You may then be pushed to open up, or it may be left at that.Either way you've not lied, nor misled anyone.