Advine needed re consultation period before redundancy

[missyp284]

Last week we were advised at work that the office would be re-locating abroad and that a 30 day consultation period would begin on Thursday 19th Jan.

We have to elect 5 members of effected staff to represent us during this consultation period. We asked if we could have a member of a trade union included but were told that the company does not recognise any unions.

Now I'm concerned that whoever is elected, isn't going to know enough about employment law to know if we're getting a raw deal here, or if the company is carrying out the process legally. A lot of us have suspicions that some of the things already mentioned are unlawful, so we're all a bit wary.

Can anyone make any suggestions as to what we can do to make sure there is someone included who knows this process, and can advise us.

It is the employees who choose the reps, not the employers. So long as the reps are employees of the firm they can be chosen (union leaders or not) - but I am sure they have to be employees.

It is the company's responsibility to ensure that the reps are able to perform their role - so often an initial session with a lawyer will be thrown in for free. After that, usually nothing. that's the norm, so it os not uncommon to have no-one around with full legal knowledge.

Depending on the numbers, you may be able to get free legal advice from lawyers. The trick to getting it is as follows:-

1. Establish if leavers are going to be asked to sign compromise agreements.
2. If this is the case, have reps ensure that they are able to insist on one or two of the names on the 'approved lawyer' list
3. have reps approach one of these lawyers and suggest that they (a) need free legal advice with consultation process, and (b) will be looking to establish a good relationship with a legal firm so that they are able to confidently recommend such a firm to all X staff involved....if there are more than, say, 50 compromise agreements in the offing, lawyers will jump to offer such a service, because of potential to pick up all the fees attached to the agreements (each one has to be reviewed by a lawyer and firm pays for it)

FWIW if they have already decided to relocate they have probably already breached the requirement that they launch a consultation when they are contemplating such a move - ie to allow reps to suggest alternatives to redundancy. Saying that, damages for an incorrect process aren't huge (and if you sue you lose right to enhanced packages).

There's probably loads on google to help you in this.

Thanks for the reply.

I've been googling and it's a bloody minefield. We (the employees) are choosing the reps, but we don't have anyone who works there with knowledge of this process.

There will be 52 of us made redundant, so a significant amount, but we haven't heard any mention of compromise agreements as yet.

The management are being very careful about how they do this, everyone knows the decision has been made to relocate and this consultation is just 'going though the motions' but it's all if and possibly when management say anything.

I think all companies make the decision before launching the process, but not much really you can do unless you have proof (even then not much you can do really). And common also for them to just go through the motions - esp for 30 day ones, where they just hold a few meetings, tell you they will consider your concerns, and then bugger off and fire you all.

If you have any burning legal qns, post them. there's a few people here who can give some good advice.

I actually think in a situation where it's clear cut like this, it's pretty legitimate for a business to make a decision to relocate an office. Although technically decisions shouldn't be finalised before consultation, I think that in practice applies more where there might genuinely be alternatives, like if they are considering making half a department redundant or something like that.

What do you think might have been done that's unlawful? Really in this situation it's going to be mainly about making sure you get the redundancy pay and notice you are entitled to.

there are few things which don't seem right to me.

1. 54 of us have been told there is a possibility our jobs will be transferred to Greece under TUPE once the consultation period ends. We've been told there will be no relocation package and no assistance offered with the relocation if we accept. We have discovered today that our jobs have been advertised on a Greek website the day after we were advised of the possibilty of the TUPE. If we don't accept TUPE, we can take redundancy.

2. Part of the busniess unit will remain in the UK. Some people have already been told their jobs are safe and they will remain, yet others will have to wait until after the consultation period and go through a selection process before they find out if they keep their job in the UK.

3. I'm one of the reps which have been elected to act on behalf of the effected staff during the consultation period and we have asked the management for specific information, such as cost cutting strategies which have already been addressed, if the option of transferring the operation from Greece to the UK was considered instead and the cost implications etc. This information is yet to be provided.

There is a whole host of other things which don't sit right with me, and the other reps, but I would say these are the main 3.

On a personal level, my job is one of the uncertain ones. I'm one of 6 employees who is having to wait until the end of February before I'll know if I've kept my job or not. There is one position available in our office, this is the job I do now, but 6 people will be going through the selection process for it. If I don't get the job, I will have to train whoever does get it, which I can't get my head around.

Sorry thats so long, and I hope it makes sense.

It all makes sense, and they haven't stepped out of line, or done anything wrong. I sympathise because it is really horrible, but it is very common for companies to up and switch operations to low-cost countries - the UK has some of the most 'flexible' employment laws in the EU which means this happens a lot in recessions (also means that UK is an attractive place to open offices too, although that's far less likely at the moment...).

A lot more has come to light, along with the fact that our jobs have already been advertised in Greece, and we've consulted and employment law specialist. She has pulled the case apart and it looks like the employer doesn't have a leg to stand on.

We were advised last week that the consultatio process would start on Thusday (tomorrow) so on MOnday the reps all got together and came up with a list of info we would like before the meeting and asked for this by midday today, for a 2pm consultation meeting tomorrow.
We've had absolutley no response from the management. So already they're not following the correct process of the consultation period.

Yes, but remember, the compensation for failing to follow process is set at an absolute maximum of 90 days pay. In reality any award is likely to be for far far less and depends on the extent of the failure (deliberately including/excluding certain people from pools for example is viewed as worse than not calling enough meetings). I have no figures but would imagine that in a case where the company is simply closing, setting up overseas and offering jobs overseas to anyone who wants them, any compensation is going to be fairly low - perhaps capped at maybe 3 weeks compensation to a month (assuming there are enough breaches to build a case). From this, you will need to pay legal fees incurred.

If you are being offered redundancy comp that is over and above the statutory minimum, there is going to be a very limited benefit in claiming, because any enhanced package will be forsaken if you take legal action.

By the way, there is only very limited information that you are actually entitled to receive: They need to give you the reasons for redundancy, numbers affected, methods of selection, methods of calculating pay, and that's really about it. Everything else you can ask for, but they do not by law have to give it to you. All they have to do is explore (eg by discussion) any alternatives you propose, or any enhancements you request, and similar. They don't have to agree to anything. If you request info and don't get it, then it's not necc a breach of the process (unless it is one of the pieces of info you are allowed by law to have, as set out above).

I'm fairly sure that advertising the jobs is not illegal (I could be wrong on this), but they will need to ensure they don't offer jobs before potentially redundant people have decided if they want to take them.

Am not sure what the employment law specialist has torn apart - is it stuff you've not outlined here?

This probably all sounds as if I'm trying to take your employers side, but that's not the case at all. It's simply that there isn't really much that can be done in these situations...