What to say to nosy workmates

[Noname]

Hi, I've changed my chatname for this one - sorry.

So, I'm going back to work soon after birth of number one son. Over the years my work colleagues have realised that I am no longer in touch with my father. They believe this is because he and my mother had a 'messy' divorce after he had an affair with a woman the same age as my sister (which he did). I have had to live through many well-intentioned lectures on this subject along the lines of - he's still your father so you should contact him, and have had allegations of immaturity. I have laughed these off and gained a reputation as a hard hearted odd ball (to put it politely).
The real reason I don't contact my father is that he abused me at an early age (whooo - I typed it!! ).
Here's the dilemma - I'm dreading the conversations that will occur when I'm back at work since now I'm going to have the 'You have no right to keep your son from his grandfather' or the 'Your father has a right to see his grandchild'
What I want you thoughtful intelligent lot to do is to come up with some ready answers for that sort of statement which are not too aggressive (ie. 'mind your own blinking business' is not a team-player style comment) so that I can go back to work ready to deal with the situation without blowing a fuse or making the real situation known.
(If this is possible). Oh well - any suggestions???

How do they know you have no contact in the first place?

I never talk about my private life at work. If I can help it.

Tell them to butt out!

Hi Noname. That must have taken courage to ask that question.

My first thought when I was reading your note was that you could tell a white lie to these nosy workmates and say, for example, that your father has moved (a long way) away. That should stop them hassling you. I certainly think you should not have to accept some self nominated 'do-gooder' criticising you. However, then I thought why should you have to lie ? I think jbr is right and that the less said on the matter at work the better - don't get drawn into a debate about this at work.

Me too - name changing. My older sister was abused by our father but after ignoring him for a time she made contact again. I think you should too. He may now be able to accept that what he did was terrible and you can deal with unresolved feelings about it. Your father doesn't have any rights but your child is different. Children generally benefit from having grandparents. Also I really believe the abused child benefits from confronting the abuser. Hope there is someone close to you you can talk to about this.

If you aren't able to make contact again then maybe lie to your workmates. Say that you did contact your father but that he's been unpleasant to your son/partner, you find it distressing and you'd rather not talk about it.

I wrote earlier and my machine ate it. I ran through options like pretend to be tearful and say its too sensitive to disucss right now to embarass coworkers into silence, or lie and say you have made the first move and its up to him.

But I am not in favour (and I've got my flame proof pants on again) of allowing contact of a child anywhere near someone whom you KNOW to be a child abuser. This is very sensitive, but I could not live with myself if I had knowingly taken my child who trusts me anywhere near someone who once abused me. sorry if thats upsetting for people but there it is.

I think you should say to nosy workmates 'Oh Lord/heavens/blimey, you are not going to lecture me on that again are you? Boooring! How about we discuss that time you danced naked on the photocopier at the office party instead?' I'm sure there's something sensitive that every person doesn't want to discuss, and if you're firm enough about it, they'll stop asking you. It's right, you shouldn't have to lie, so try throwing the embarassment back at them for a change. Do it smilingly, don't appear bothered, thats what the nosey buggers want - a bit of juice. I think what you've done on this thread is marvellous. Keep going and good luck!

Maybe you could say something non-committal(sp?) such as "Thank you for your comments/advice. I'll bear it in mind."

That way, you're acknowledging their input, which hopefully will satisfy them, you're not forced into telling fibs and, with a bit of luck, it will kill the conversation dead.

Kia - you're a genius and I agree with you totally. Noname I don't think you should re-establish contact with your father. He abused you, he could easily do it to your child. You probably have enough feelings of grief, insecurity without adding the feeling that you may ever put your child at risk as you were. Please ignore the senseless comments of your colleagues; you don't owe them any explanations. Just say/do whatever you feel is right - it's your life, and you are an incredibly strong person. Hang in there.

I think there's a range of good advice here, though I definitely disagree with Anon about re-establishing contact - that is completely up to you. Even if your son's safety isn't an issue I think, given what you've been through, that your own feelings are more important than the grandparent-child relationship.

I had contact with and loved my grandfather until the day he died - we lived about 200 miles away , so the contact was distant and infrequent. I recently found out that he abused my mother when she was a child. So how did I feel? Obviously discusted and angry. My mother chose not to tell me about this - I found out when my parents divorced but she had made sure that when we were young, we were never remember left alone with my grandfather - so we were never put at any risk. I totally respect my mother's wish to know and love the people we knew as grandparents - and for my grandmother to have the love and respect of her grandchildren.

I had to post this because although if I hadn't identified with the situation, of course I would have understood the views of Kia. I'll always abhor my grandfathers behaviour(i believe he was a sick man) but I can't deny the pleasure it's brought to my grandmother and my mother; the very victim of the whole scenario.

You have been very brave to admit to this, Noname, and I hope that it helps somewhat to beable to talk about it with others. The suggestions from the others, as usual, have been very good. I was thinking about what I might say to my work colleagues in your situation - it's a tricky one - but I think Kia's idea about telling them that is too sensitive to talk about at work seems good. Let them know that you need to concentrate on your job and don't want your mind distracted by other things. If they have got one ounce of sensitivity between them, they might realise that they have totally overstepped the mark and stop pushing it. On the otherhand, you know your colleagues better than us, if you don't think that this would stop the 'helpful' comments, could you tell a little 'white' lie along the lines that he has now met your son but you are going to take things slowly. I'm not one for telling lies, except in exceptional circumstances, which this is. Perhaps if you tell them this, they will lose interest, and focus their energies on someone else! Whatever you decide, I really do wish you well. C.

I can understand where Kia is coming from but when you know that you and your child carry the same genes as an abusive parent it doesn't help to have them demonised. Someone who has been abusive does not always behave in the same way to other children. The baby is also a boy, making problems less likely. Having said that my father has not been left alone with a young child since we found out.

He's a very good grandparent, much loved by his grandchildren who do not always understand why their parents are less than loving to him. We dont tell the children until they are old enough not to repeat it outside the family. This is not to make any apology for the abuse but it was only a part of his character.

I understood my sister cutting off contact. I didn't criticise her decision and wouldn't blame anyone else for feeling the same way. However when she did decide to re-establish (infrequent) contact she benefited as well as her children. An abused child often feels powerless and going back to confront the abuser is establishing that they no longer have that power over you.

This is really what Mumsnet is all about, supporting people whilst coming from different directions. We don't necessarily agree with each other, but nonanme and anon are getting the benefit of our support at a very difficult time. II'm not sure how you'll take this but is admitting that this has happened to you even worse (if that could be possible) than the abuse? In case anyone else is having these problems, I wondered if you would be able to say what has been the most helpful advice or shoulder you've found?

Noname, if you don't want to just tell people that you can't talk about that yet, you could try just agreeing with them when they start the lecture but do nothing about it. You don't have to lie outright about it if you don't feel comfortable - you could say things like "You're right, it really does need resolving. I'll have to think about it when I'm less exhausted" I find a minute by minute account of just how long I was up in the night usually makes people disappear!

Noname, I felt that I had to reply because I was also abused as a child and am quite worried about some of the replies. I think that once an adult sexually abuses a child, then they've given away any rights to a relationship with that or any other child. I would strongly urge you to ensure that your father has no contact at all with your son. Being in the company of others does not stop abusers who are obviously devious and sly to be able to get away with it in the first place. And as for someone saying that your son is at less risk because he's a boy - that's complete rubbish. These people get their kicks from having sexual relations with children because they are innocent and vulnerable, regardless of their gender. I'd also have to dissagree with Anon who said that someone who is abusive doesn't always bahave in the same way with other children - they probably would, given half the chance! Its not something someone can be cured of. If knowing that it is wrong doesn't prevent them from doing it with one child, it wont stop them from doing it with another. I'm sure no woman would deliberately put herself in any situation with a know rapist (once a rapist always a rapist) and the same should go for sexual abusers.

Noname, I agree with the comments that have been made that your father has given up all his 'rights' to a relationship with his grandchildren in his hideous behaviour towards you. He cannot be trusted. And whilst part of me says that we must not make sweeping statements regarding such things, as an individual who has been through this trauma, it is perfectly understandable that you don't want to see him or allow him near your children. But this is not what you asked, and re: nosey workmates; don't tell them anything you don't want them to know. Tell them firmly and clearly that it is not an issue for discussion and how they respond is their problem. Don't let thenm make you feel that you are hard hearted (easier said than done) but you have been through enough. Good luck, and best wishes Winnie x

Thanks everyone for all your advice - lots of different ideas. Sis - liked the idea of describing just how tired I am and why LOL! I think I'll try to remember Kia's method of changing the subject and Sue donim's 'thanks for the advice, I'll bear it in mind.' I feel a lot more confident now which is half the battle.

I work with a couple of people who don't seem to understand the limits of a work relationship. Their questioning of colleagues personal lives, seems to have led to a general atmosphere where all the staff now feel entitled to ask any question they think of and get a reply!

Anon and Janer I really appreciate your contributions. Thanks.

My view on the contact issue is similar to Janer's. My father gave up every right to contact to me or my children when he decided to abuse. He has been confronted by various family members over the years and has always denied it so I'm sure he'd do the same if I tried. I decided to stop seeing him after a couple of years of serious depression, eating disorder and half-hearted suicided attempts. It was the only way I could get my life back and it worked!

My sister (also abused) is still in contact with him and allows him supervised access to her sons. I think the decision must be a personal one. I fully support my sister but it's not the decision I've made.

Oh, and boys are not at less risk of abuse than girls! Felt I had to put that in sorry

I understand why you've done it Noname - just think in the long run you'll benefit if you can confront and even forgive him. Of course he doesn't have any rights after doing something so evil. Its his continuing impact on you I'm concerned about. As long as you feel bad about it he still has power over you. I'm glad the depression/self harm that is so common is abused children is behind you.

Not all abusers are the same. Some will abuse any child they come across but others are very selective. My sister was the only child abused in our (large) family and it was during one of my mother's pregnancies. It took my father a long time to bring himself to admit to what he'd done. He did seek treatment voluntarily and he did admit it/ sort of apologise eventually. I wouldn't rely on it by leaving a child alone with him but I truly don't think he was a risk to anyone else. As I used to know people who worked with sex offenders I still think boys are less likely to be abused.

Kia talking about abuse is very difficult. My sister won't even talk much to me about it. In one way she was lucky. My mother consulted a psychiatrist who didn't believe it (so no court action) but the rest of the family did. My parents separated although they got back together later. It still affects all of us. As an example I can't explain to friends why I'm reluctant for my children to go on sleepovers. I have a very old male friend who is hurt that I won't leave my daughters with him as a babysitter. I even used to watch my husband bath our daughters. He feels he can't be too demonstrative with them because I have told him about it. If I explained to anyone else, though, my children would be excluded because of what their grandfather did.

There are also feelings of guilt to deal with - I was only about 4 at the time so the guilt doesn't affect me much. Others in the family feel bad about not noticing or about being the result of the pregnancy. Not totally rational but guilt is like that.

Anon- I think I understand a lot of what you say. In my situation, my father abused all of his children (boys and girls) plus other children. He has always denied doing anything even though he has served a prison term for gross indecency. Unfortunately, my entire family lived in denial until I was in my late teens ie. everyone knew what had happened but no one spoke about it.
At the time the court case occurred I was about 10 years old and the family 'party line' was that Daddy was innocent. I was even told that he was aquitted.
When my sister became pregnant, it was the trigger for me to confront what had happened as I was afraid for her unborn child - that's what triggered my depression etc. I then got worse when I thought that the two kids that had been brave enough to go to court had not been believed. I have since found out that my father had in fact been found guilty but returned home directly after the trial as his sentence matched the amount of time he was on remand.

The guilt factor is enormous although I think I have dealt with it quite well over the past 10 years. As anyone with toddlers/pre-school children knows, their behaviour is to some extent determined by what they get attention for - if the only attention you get from a parent is abuse it becomes almost wanted by the child because the alternative is no attention. A lot of abusers 'groom' their victims so the kids think that it's their fault - this can be so difficult to deal with as an adult as you need so much self-confidence to be able to put that guilt behind and move on.

I've also found that I find it very hard to 'make friends' with women (okay with men) as I spent so much of my childhood determined not to let any other children come to my house/sleepover etc. when my father was busy befriending them on my behalf in order to abuse them. I totally understand your reluctance to allow your child to go on sleepovers.

Before we decided to start a family I discussed all of this with my husband and he knew I would be concerned about his behaviour with the baby - at the moment I'm surprisingly laid back about it. He bathes and dresses ds without me looking on. I admit I don't know if I'd be so happy if we had had a daughter. (I don't claim to be consistent or rational!)

The other issue is the 'abused children become abusers' belief. I am reluctant to admit my past even to close friends because I am worried that they would think that I would harm any child. IMHO many abusers may have been abused themselves but being abused does not turn someone into an abuser.

My sister has been afraid to hug her own sons (I think this is one of the saddest things I've heard).

Any way, I'm starting to ramble - Once again, thanks for everyone's suggestions, I feel ready to face the well-intentioned advice of my colleagues. Think I better change my chatname back and find a thread about big knickers .

Dear noname
I think your work colleagues have picked up that there is a problem with your father possibly because you look embarrassed or whatever when he is mentioned. This makes them even more curious/nosy/interested as to the reason why you have no contact. Of course it is absolutely none of their business and sensitive people would not continue to question you. When asked about him just smile and carry on working until they get the message.

Girls who have been abused are more likely to go in for self harm than to become abusers. It's a bit different for boys. If the only affection they know is in an abusive relationship they do tend to copy that later. Doesn't mean they all do it - but that they may need help to recognise how they were manipulated. Abusers are usually good at playing on the emotions of the children they abuse. My sister could forgive our father more readily than our mother. She felt let down by both but blamed our mother more for not stopping it. (Can't think of the word I want at the moment - its more than let down but that's the best I can manage).

A (male) friend who worked with sex offenders said he could no longer hug his daughters - yes its very sad. Your sister needs to show her affection for her sons and not to worry about it. I know, though, how you can think you've coped with it and then find something (like sleepovers) catching you unawares. Intellectually I know the chance of anything happening is very small (safety in numbers and all that) but emotionally it's too much.

Oh well - off to find the big knickers!

I too was abused as a child - by my grandfather so please don't put your child in harms way.
I finally told my parents when I was 21 and we all stopped having contact with him overnight. I have told my partners family and most other people who ask that my grandparents are dead as this is easier than any other lie and he may well be by now.
Can you tell your workmates that you did contact your father after the birth but he has not replied to you and they may then think he must be a pig and stop enquiries of this kind altogether?
I really do think once an abuser, always an abuser, believe me it doesn't matter how old they are, they are always capable so just keep away.

Anon - My sister is the same - she has contact with my father as she accepts that he has an 'illness' that he can't control but she has a very tense relationship with my mother which she has told me is because she can't forgive mum for not protecting us. I confronted my mother years ago after finally working out that she knew what had happened but chose to stay with him so I guess that's out of my system.
Anon 3 - Thanks for your message. I will not let my father anywhere near my children. My father lives abroad and has remarried so to most people (in laws etc.) it's natural that he's not on the scene. It's just those pesky characters at work who insist that I should grow up and contact him (in their ignorance - sure they wouldn't if they knew the full story but I'm not giving them the satisfaction of knowing it).