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At risk of redundancy - but what if both of us offer to take voluntary?

3 replies

insicknessandinhealth · 09/01/2012 04:07

Not sure if anyone can advise me on this. Myself and a colleague have been put at risk of redundancy but have been in touch with one another and both of us are thinking of offering ourselves up for voluntary redundancy. If this happens, does this put both of us in a more vulnerable position in terms of negotiation of the redundancy package? Does the company then decide which of us it will make redundant on almost the same basis as it would choose which of us to keep?

I am part time and she is full time so I suppose I would be cheaper to make redundant but I'm not sure whether it is that criteria they would go by.
The job for the person left behind I think we both suspect will be a complete nghtmare and neither of us want it. However I must admit that when I discovered she was thinking the same thing it did make me wonder whether in the current climate it is better to keep a job than be unemployed

I do have a child though and my DH is disabled so I am unable to do any overtime at all in the nightmare job. I was busy daydreaming of giving up job to go freelance and also following my dream of starting a baking blog and baking birthday and cupcakes etc for local birthday parties.

Aargh! What a decision! My company also has excellent benefits, pension scheme etc so perhaps I am also better to try and stay put for that reason. Anyone been through this? No one I have ever spoken to has ever regretted being made redundant so it would be interesting to hear of your experiences. I am an editor in book publishing so whole industry is heading into general decline.

Sorry for waffling on - awake for third night in row worrying about it all!!

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StillSquiffy · 09/01/2012 09:49

Setting aside the voluntary bit for the moment: When a company restructures, they tend to draw up the org structure showing the roles they want to have in place by the end of the redundancy. There will be certain criteria they will want in certain roles, and in good companies they will split out the work into, for example "Admin roles - 4x full-time, or 8x part-time or equivalent mix thereof", and that means that being full/part time should only be relevant in terms of making sure the 'total' adds up to the work needed. However, 'need for flexibility for overtime' might be a criteria they put on a role (depends on the role itself and nature/culture of company) which could make you less attractive than other people under consideration. And of course if they only have one role planned, then they will decide if it is to be full-time OR part-time. Which doesn't mean that the role will automatically go to the person currently doing it full/part-time. They will decide who is best suited for the role and offer it to them first. that person can then accept or reject. If the role involves very substantial change in terms (eg switch from full- to part- time or vice versa) then the first person can reject it (and still potentially be eligible for redundancy) and the company can decide whether to offer it to the next in line. If there is no change in terms for the person they want to keep (eg full time person offered full time role) then the person is appointed automatically and the second is made redundant. The first person cannot refuse to do the role if it is the same as their current role - no-one can insist on being made redundant.

Offering a voluntary scheme means only that you wave a flag saying 'I'd prefer if it was me that was made redundant' and is a great way of matching up those you want to keep with those who want to be kept and vice versa. However, when all the eligible people offer themselves up for redundancy, it effectively negates the whole process of offering voluntary, and the firm then has to go back to first principles of choosing best candidate for the job (without excluding the 'voluntaries' first). So if you both offer yourselves up they will ignore that as a factor in the process,

In terms of should you stay or should you go, only you can answer that. I work in M&A and see the aftermath of large scale redundancies all the time. What I can say is that in general those who are left behind find the first 12 months or so very tough (more work, less people, combined with sometimes a huge drop in loyalty, especially amongst those who perceive that they or their colleagues or their departed colleagues have been unfairly treated). Sometimes redundancies offer an opportunity for people to leap out of boring roles into a faster career path in the same organisation (as a result of restructure), but IME it is often the hugely ambitious rather than the hugely talented that benefit. Things tend to settle down after around 18 months, but it will be a different organisation, with a different culture and a different atmosphere. Which of course could be a good thing.

As for the alternative of leaving, I have mentored people through this, and I tend to advise those who already have other job offers to jump ship (I don't advise that all the time - depends on the situation of course). If you think it would be difficult to find another job then I think you should sit tight and see what happens. It can be a huge boost to find that you are picked as preferred candidate against others (especially if you know that others are more flexible with overtime etc). And if you are not the preferred candidate then you will be made redundant anyway.

When you are thinking about all of this try to look at worst case scenarios and pick the one that sounds least bad.

I think your two choices of worst case are (1) you stay and they try to make you work longer hours and it is awful and you quit because of the stress, missing out on redundancy package you might have got, and (2) You leave, can't find another job, missing out on earnings and spending your redundancy before you find alternative work, and end up feeling a bit of a failure). Which sounds worst??

Sorry about your situation, by the way. A close friend of mine is in publishing and has been going through this for something like 15 years now. She works freelance now (which is ok but V stressful if you have a family to support)

LovesBloominChristmas · 09/01/2012 14:44

You don't mention if you would get an enhanced packaged. If you couldn't get another job/self employed didn't work out how long could you cope finically? How many years have you been there, cause your notice period would reflect that.

Personally I didn't regret it. I miss the money and am now going to have to fins a job but I've had two years off/pt, had another baby and it meant I could be with my dad when he died so priceless. Tge flip side is I'd worked my way up and don't have qualifications Confused

My dh also did this, weeks after dd was born and he has never regretted it either.

What I would say after managing staff going through this is to remember that once you have said you want to go, if you aren't chosen for VR it's hard staying at work cause you have kinda prepared to leave already. Mind you even if you don't get chosen there is no reason you can resign anyway!

insicknessandinhealth · 09/01/2012 15:29

thanks stillsquiffy that's really helpful advice. I have sort of come to the conclusion in the course of today that if I can I should stay in the job if I get the chance. So I will not offer myself for VR at this stage. It's interesting what you say about hugely ambitious people thriving when being made redundant. I am not like that and I worry that all my plans might not take off due to my tendency to procrastinate but also to my domestic situation (my DH does not work and is disabled following a stroke and at home now and is always in need of me to do bits and bobs for him - not full on caring but helping him out as can't walk and talk properly) and having to fit everything into school hours (only 9-12 until Sept)would eventually make the situation stressful if I couldn't find a job, after the inital euphoria of not having to go into work every day. Everyone wants to work school hours (which is what would suit me best) and I did apply for a job locally once as a receptionist at a law firm and I didn't even get an interview. When they eventually sent a letter they said that 70 people had applied!

LovesBloominChristmas thanks also for your advice. I don't really know what package they are offering yet as our initial meetings are tomorrow afternoon. In the last round of redundancies here they offered the notice period plus a month's pay for every year you had worked for the company (which for me would amount to 10 months' pay) but I guess it can be different every time depending on what the budget is for redundancies.

I think on balance I would rather be awake worrying about a job I already have than worrying about paying bills and a mortgage with no job at all (and I would worry because I am a natural worrier anyhow!).

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