discrimination for being part time - advice needed (hopefully from someone in HR??!)

[angelonthetree]

Hi, thanks for taking the time to read my post.

I have been at my (big blue chip company) for 7 years and have an impeccable performance record.

I returned from maternity leave in April to a new role at 3 days a week.
The role was fine (albeit rather dull as i am over qualified for it) until August when my manager left the company and I was 'inherited' by a new manager.

In my first conversation with this man he asked me to work full time (i said no). He then asked me if i could be flexible on the days i worked from week to week. I explained that i couldn't as my DS is in nursery and I only pay for the 3 days which I work. He asked me to get a full time nanny which i explained i couldn't do on my salary. He then got mightily pissed off and told me "i can't support your career if you're only prepared to work 3 days a week". It has since gone from bad to worse with me basically being sidelined from the team. He has refused to meet with me to discuss my performance and development since August and cancelled every 1-2-1 i have ever put in his diary to discuss these issues. Due to being sidelined I have felt totally left out of the team and had no interesting work as he says he needs people on the team who are full time. Added to this I was not given an annual review (cancelled each time by him).

I have since had a meeting with him (and others) about a work project rather than my career discussion where he just let rip at me, shouting his head off at me and saying he doesn't want me on the team.

I was even NOT invited to the official team christmas party. i know that sounds silly but it just confirmed i am basically being pushed out.

I am now at the point where I am so upset about all this. It has been affecting me really badly (can't sleep/always tired, crying uncontrollably a lot, constant headaches. I am pretty sure i could get signed off sick if i wanted to but that won't resolve the situation at all.

A few people have told me i could go for redundancy by basically saying my boss has effectively told me there is no place for me in his team. Also by letting HR know everything which has been said to me they may decide it is easier to pay me off than have to face a tribunal as I believe some of the things he has said/done are illegal.

I know i could try and get HR to move me to another role but I hate the company so much and want out now.

So, My questions:

• Do I have grounds for threatening a tribunal?
• When people get 'paid off' so companies can avoid tribunals do they effectively get made redundant? (I'm trying to work out the financial implications).
• Is it even worth treatening a tribunal or should i just try for redundancy?
• Any other advice about how to proceed?

I have made notes of all the incidences with my boss (dates etc) and in some cases there have been other people there.

To make matters more complex I am currently TTC. I have been for 6 months with no luck. I was hanging in there for the mat leave pay but it is so awful now I want out. I also wonder whether the TTC isn't working because I am so stressed and upset about it all.

Sorry for the long post! Advice welcome

Thank You

You will struggle to make a tribunal claim if you have not raised a grievance. That is the first step.

IMO you are getting ahead of yourself. You need to make a complaint before you can even start looking at compromise agreements and pay offs. If you want to leave then obviously you will make a stronger complaint than if you wish to stay with your employer. I agree it looks like nasty, bullying behaviour with a discriminatory angle, but I also know that you need to follow the process and look like you know your stuff to stand the best chance of getting the result you want.

You've already got notes about the inappropriate behaviour so that's a start. This guide from ACAS explains the grievance procedure so you know what ot expect but do check out and follow your own company's www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=1043

If you need help writing your grievance letter please just ask.

It sounds horrible. As Kate says you need to follow a grievance procedure.

You can't "try" for redundancy (unless there is a current voluntary redundancy scheme going on that relates to your role).

Thanks for the advice ladies and the link kate.

RE: me 'trying' for redundancy.... i think there may be a way as the role i was recruited into post mat leave was a project which finished in october. Since then i have been doing bits and pieces but none of it is within my area of skills and expertise and there are no roles in the area i have always worked in. So due to that i think perhaps there is a way of linking the two and trying to get out with some cash.....

I will read all the ACAS docs and go through my own company policies and then may come back for some more advice if that's ok??!

Thanks so much for taking the time to help me. really nice of you.

If there's anyone else reading this who has any advice i would very much appreciate it.

Thanks,

Yes of course it's fine to come back after a think.

In a large blue chip organisation there will almost certainly be a 'Head of Diversity'. Call HR and ask them who leads their diversity programme, and who deals with diversity issues. There will often be a business head and an HR head with responsibility for this area. Ask for a meeting, tell them what has been going on, and ask their advice. In particular explain that you are being prevented from performing the work you need to do in order to continue to progress your career.

In a large organisation there will always be a few primal arses kickign around, but without knowing who they are, HR are often unable to take action. It is far better to make him the focus of HR discussions, rather than you. They will possibly advise that you raise a grievance anyway, but they are a good first call and you will have nothing to lose in talking to them. At worst they will not be specialist in this area, will wring their hands and you'll need to raise a formal grievance anyway. At best they will string him up by his balls.

You could go for constructive dismissal with a claim for sex discrimination. you can get signed off and raise a grievance once signed off and ask for grievance to be dealt with in writing.

You won't conceive while this stress is going on I wouldn't think.

Good luck

Claiming constructive dismissal is extremely difficult and you have to resign. I would not recommend doing this until all internal options have been exhausted.

Op, don't let one stupid man ruin your career. You can stand up to him. We will support you on here.

hi all,

well i had an appointment this morning with citizens advice who were no help whatsoever. They just kept telling me i had the right to apply for flexible working(????!!) BUT I have an appointment with an employment specialist next week who may be able to help me??

Thanks squiffy for the idea about head of diversity, My organisation are always banging on about diversity but it's total bollocks and just lip service.

So i've been looking for policies on my company's intranet and the grievance policy is very vague but says depending on the issue you may need the harassment policy. A friend of mine says what I am experiencing is being marginalised which HR view as the same as harrassment? So I wonder if i need the harrasment policy? In which case the only way to get it is to contact your HR business partner. Obviously as soon as i ask for the policy they know something is up..... But I guess this is the only way i get the policy?

My HR are universally renowned through the company as being total shite. I have told one of the HR VPS that my boss says he won't support me as i'm part time and he barely batted an eyelid. The thought of going through it all terrifies me but I also refuse to be bullied into submission.

Not sure what to do next!

Help, I know i am being a wuss about it but it's horrible as i feel so isolated at work now.

That's part of the problem with bullying angel it does make you feel isolated. You can always come here for support.

As others have said upthread, you really do need to raise some sort of grievance. It's not easy, but it has to be your next step. You can't go to tribunal or seek a compromise agreement (where they pay you to go away) until you have been through their procedures.

Also, HR will be involved in whatever happens. Bear in mind that HR are there for management's purposes, they are not on your side. They should behave professionally, though.

My advice would be to 1) decide on the outcome you want; 2) get a copy of the harassment policy; 3) compare the harassment policy and the grievance policy; 4) raise your grievance using the policy you feel is more likely to get you to the outcome you want.

Hi sparks thanks for the advice.

HR at my company are definitely not there to help us. It's shocking really compared to other HR teams i hear of.

So - it turns out the UK team don't operate a harrassment policy so I have to use the grievance policy. I am happy to do this as i know my boss has done this to other people and they never complained (he is very senior and intimidating).

The ideal outcome for me would be a compromise agreement/redundancy.

Any advice on how to try and get this through my grievance?

My boss is so senior that even if they move me to another role he will influence my career and effectively this means my career will be up the shitter (professional term) as i know he'll hold it against me....

Thanks for the advice, It is so nice knowing there are professional ladies out there with positive advice to give. (you should come and work in HR at my place!)

I am a union rep, won't be working in HR any time soon .

It is against the law for the company/your manager to treat you 'less favourably' than others because you work part time. More info here.

Your grievance is that you have systematically been treated less favourably. You have loads of specific examples of this in your OP (assuming others have had 1-2-1s, annual reviews, interesting work, invites to xmas do). Then there is also his direct statement that he can't support your career if you are pt. All against the law.

I would also say that his behaviour where he let rip at you, shouting his head off and so forth amounts to harassment. I would put that in the complaint.

It's not going to be a quick process. The procedure should set out steps you have to go through and I presume you would have at least one appeal stage. Once you have exausted their procedure, then you would be able to start tribunal proceedings.

I'm a qualified HR professional and I'm about to start looking for a job again. I plan to be a tough HR type - making sure we do things properly and make lots of money to keep everyone in jobs I'm in favour of a soft HR approach (Storey). Good practices, well managed = good performances and avoidance of costs related to getting it wrong.

If you wish to get a pay off and get out (and think carefully about the consequences - could you ever work in the industry again? Would you be burning your bridges?) you need to know some facts. You probably won't get a huge pay off if you do get one. Think 3-6 months net salary, if that. You have to be prepared to make good on your threats. If you threaten tribunal then you have to be prepared to make a claim.

Talk to a good employment lawyer. It will cost you but will be money well spent.

Thanks sparks

REALLY appreciate all the advice and when i read back my post i kind of can't believe this has happened to me.

So realistically what would be the outcome?

1. Nothing (I doubt this, my company supposedly have such a thrust on promotion diversity and keeping women at the moment that i think they would do something.

1. I get moved to another team (don't really want this as he will still influence my career so i'm screwed)

1. I get paid off

I feel like if i do nothing i'm not being true to myself (cheesy but true) but if i do something i'll unearth a host of issues. Not nice is it?

But having the support and amazing advice here is so helpful. I really appreciate it all. All advice welcome!

Thanks so much

another question (sorry!)

As i said earlier I am pretty sure my GP would sign me off with stress if i wanted this. I believe I am 'stressed (in that i have all the symptoms of 'stress') but am the sort of person who believes that most people suffer stress sometimes and you have to suck it up and push on.

Given that i've lost love and loyalty to my company is it worth me just getting myself signed off in the new year (i think it would do me good to have a break from it all) and submit my grievance from 'sick with stress leave'. Does this give it any extra weight? It is what i believe would be best for my health but i don't want it to mean i am seen in a 'weak' light.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

No extra weight but if you are feeling unwell from what is happening then not being in the office might not be a bad thing for your own well-being.

Someone I know well struggled on for a long time with a bullying boss, making herself very ill. She stopped sleeping, lost weight and almost had a breakdown. She should have taken sick leave but she didn't. Nobody benefited. Thankfully she got another job and left.

You could be surprised.

In a v big org I know one person's return from maternity leave sparked an issue with a neanderthal manager - led to a review of whole dept, led to new diversity review across whole of UK, led to new practices, led to whole bunch of women getting a better deal, and it educated the neanderthals at the same time.

(didn't fix everything of course)

Whatever happens is better than current position. I'm always of the view that taking time off for stress only delays stuff and doesn't fix it - getting back to work can also seem like a mountain to climb. But of course if you need to take time out, then don't risk your health by carrying on.

Redundancy may/may not come up as an option but to be honest I doubt they will offer it - if they make a big noise about diversity then offering a compromise is tantamount to accepting that they are not going to change their ways - I don't think they'd think that an acceptable resolution.

What happens next depends on both quality of the HR person who deals with it, and also whether or not your boss is considered to have 'form' for this. But we can help advise you on whatever comes up as it unfolds.

I am firmly of the view that you will be able to deal with the stress better if you complain than if you suck it up. And your worst case scenario - that you get moved and current boss tries to blacken your name and trash your career prospects is - let's face it - pretty much what he is doing anyway at the moment. I'm not sure that 'worst case' is any worse than where you currently are.

Whatever happens is better than current position

This is important. And v good advice.

thanks for all the advice everyone.

you are right of course!

very helpful to have it said back at me.

my company bang on and on about diversity (esp with women as there are so few in snr positions) but as i mentioned earlier in the thread (i think) My project finished in october and they have since been able to find me nothing at my grade on 3 days. So i am stuck. so shit.

but you're right, doing something is better than nothing.....

hi there - just checking in to say I have an appointment with an employment specialist (through cit advice) on tuesday. Are they likely to be any good?

I had a brief chat with a woman on my team yesterday who told me "don't burn your bridges with BOSSMAN"... like some kind of awful warning of what he might do to me if i take this further.

It had the desired effect and now i feel totally intimidated. ggrrrrrrr.

Onwards!......

Angel, don't give in and let one individual ruin your career. Your career that you have clearly worked long and hard for. Tbh, he sounds like an arse, but there are plenty of them about (I know a few).

I have had some pretty shit stuff happen to me in my career and I sometimes fight, sometimes didn't. What I would say is that it's only when you start fighting for your rights, for parity, for a fair workplace, that you realise how strong you are.

My tips to you would be as Kate said and...

1. Get it all in writing....take copies of all docs, policies and files that you might need, back up those emails
2. Think about the positive in work ...yes, he's an arse, but don't let him ruin your life

Be brave, you can change the world, an arse at a time

thanks oneliein, i need posts like this to make me realise this is NOT my fault and the situation is the way it is because of him, not me. I am just broken now though... can't believe work could affect me this much......

I can. How long do you spend there, compared to how long you spend out of the office (except for w/ends and vacations)?

Please take action, this situation is affecting you on all levels of your life, and needs to be curtailed. It will take a lot out of you as you embark on it, but ultimately, you will come out of this knowing your strength. We are here to support you. Please move forward. Edmund Burke said all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good (wo)men do nothing.

Do something.

Try to think a few steps ahead - get a Grievance in, make sure to have a companion/rep with you, prepare a written statement/bullet points so you don't miss anything out, make sure to write/mention key words such as harassment/discrimination!

Should you be moved and fear backlash, it's better that you already have raised a greivance because you can then say you are being "victimised" (in employment law terms) for having made a Protected Disclosure ie, your complaint of harassment/discrimination.

Grievances are a necessary step but hardly ever work as your employer is defendant, and judge and jury.

Thanks ladies - I am definitely going to arrange a meeting in the new yr.

On an aside the doctor has suggested signing me off for a few weeks. I believe this would be good for me healthwise and (rightly or wrongly) am not concerned how it will 'look' to my employer.

What I am concerned about however is whether in the future when i go for another job i may have to disclose medical records and they may find out that i have been signed off for stress in the past.

It's not normal in my industry for you to be asked for medical records but a few people have warned me about this as it could prevent me from getting aother job in the future. Does anyone know if they can ask you for your medical records as part of the job application procedure?

Thanks again for the support. Means a lot to me