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really need help about shit thing at work today PLEASE!

6 replies

BiggerAndBadder · 28/11/2011 21:03

i am in sales. ive been at new job since july.
found out today in probation review that company (very small) struggling and i and the company havent been making sales targets at least since ive been there. i know there have been cash flow problems.
have been told in my probation review (was meant to be after 3 months but was late) that because the company is doing bad at moment then for the next 3 months (rest of probation which is extended) then me and other sales person (who is the boss) need to bring in 70k for dec, jan, and feb (previous target was 45k) . If we do this i can get my agreed salary which is 18k - pro rata for that month - if we dont meet the 70k then i get 13k pro rata. If we meet 70k each of these 3 months i can get full time contract and pass my probation. If we dont then 'bye bye' for me.
Another issue is that we are relocating from 1st Dec (Thursday) - which me and other 2 employees only found out today - to a location which will cost me £170 a month to travel to, compared with current £93 a month.
Also previously i had a bonus structure, but now even if we meet the 70k i will not get a bonus - because we cant afford it. Change of contract.
my husband has become a full time student since september and we have 4 kids (teenagers).
I love my job. I know i could get 13k or a bit more working in the town i live in with virtually no travel expenses but in a job that will 'go nowhere' and not have the potential to progress. I know i need to try and meet that 70k this month to make sure i get the equivalent of 18k rather than 13k for this month (which i think is acheivable). but i probably need to look for another job.
Husband said if travel costs me more i should be able to claim for excess travel by law somehow - and i need to join a union.
I know they will say that they cant afford it to pay excess travel.
What union is relevant for an office based salesperson?
What is anyones point of view?
I dont think we can live on me earning 13k and husband student with 4 kids even with family tax credit
please give me all your opinions.....!

OP posts:
KateMiddIeton · 28/11/2011 23:15

A few questions for you:

When you agreed to work for them what was the salary agreed? This should be in writing probably in a contract but possibly just in a statement of employee particulars.

Where is you location/place of work in your contract?

Are there any mobility clauses in your contract?

Was your previous bonus scheme contractual or an incentive scheme?

BiggerAndBadder · 29/11/2011 07:08

We agreed a salary of 18000 plus commission as agreed with managing director in writing in a contract
Location was where we are now
Mobility clauses - You will be required to work on either a temporary or an indefinite basis at any premises,which XXX wholly or partly own or are associated with. Your principal place of work is... - I guess that is a mobility clause!

OP posts:
StillSquiffy · 29/11/2011 08:36

Given mobility clause you are not able to claim additional expenses (I am assuming the new job is still within, say, a 30 mile radius of the old?). It's just the way it is. The new location might have been closer to your home, not further away, so companies rarely make good on extra costs you might incur.

Unfortunately you are not in a strong position. They are definitely breaching your contract because the £18k base is what you are entitled to, not £13k. and there will also be a breach if the bonus element as been removed (although if disretionary the brach is difficult to value). However, because you have served less than 12 months employment, your employer is entitled to dismiss you (although he must follow due process and give you a notice period and bring you up to date with holiday pay). He is also entitled to dismiss you and then immediately offer you a different contract of employment (the notice/holiday pay still apply though).

Joining a union won't really help you with this.

So, there's not much you can do in reality, other than maybe say that they are breaching your contract by reducing your base salary and that this is an unlawful deduction of wages which you will not accept. This may of course trigger them to dismiss you. If you think the donwturn is a blip and things will pick up you might consider countering their proposal with a proposal of your own (eg to make good the salary deficit via a bonus of X if criteria of Y is reached), but that could then get messy.

bunjies · 29/11/2011 08:43

Do you really want to work for a company so financially insecure? I would rather have a 'go nowhere' job that paid than a insecure job.

KateMiddIeton · 29/11/2011 12:58

Well they can't just decide to change the terms of your contract but Squiffy's quite right they could just give you your notice as you have less than one year's service. That mobility clause means there's not much chance of getting any expenses paid (you might be able to negotiate the difference for your notice period as they should really give you proper notice of the change).

A Union now will be no help and an extra cost IMO.

It sounds like the company are either in real trouble or are utterly unscrupulous. Either way you're probably better off out of there. Sorry I realise that's not good news.

So I suggest you raise your objection to the change to your terms and conditions now and make it clear you are "Working Under Protest". This will ensure you get paid even if it is at a hugely reduced rate. You can then claim the missing money by making a tribunal claim for unlawful deduction of wages. You have 3 months less one day from date of incident to do that. Date of incident is arguable. It could be the date they respond to your letter or the date they should have responded by so do put a date for response in but bear in mind your action could trigger them to dismiss you so you may wish to wait until after your first reduced pay packet to buy you some extra time to look for another job.

However, once you raise a claim for unlawful deduction of wages from your employer the one year's service rule for unfair dismissal is waived and if you are dismissed for exercising your right not to have unlawful deductions made it is classed an automatically unfair dismissal see here: m.direct.gov.uk/syndicationController?action=view¶m=DG_10026692&utn=8e8139fe1b5344a2b53f201111291250

All of that said it can take months to get a claim heard at a tribunal and get any money. Start looking for a job now. You're doing sales so contact high street banks, insurance brokers, estate agents etc. All pay a bit extra than retails jobs and will value sales skills highly.

Good luck.

See here for more info: m.direct.gov.uk/syndicationController?action=view¶m=DG_10037116&utn=13d68ef8ee4144489eeb201111291245

BiggerAndBadder · 29/11/2011 20:06

thank you so much all contributors!

i have just applied for a very relevant local job on a salary of 15 - 25k - more hours but not when current travel is taken into account.

thinking that current employers reference wont be worth much.. but fingers crossed!

keeping on looking - and starting new silly location on Thursday!

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