Help me please- being made redundant when pregnant. Very scared and shaky

[CrackersandCheese]

Hi there,

I really hope you ladies can offer me some advice. I'm going to do some research on google etc but this is the first place I thought of.

I've just got off the phone from one of our directors who has told me that I'm 1 of 6 positions (of 230) that are 'at risk' of being made redundant next year. This is not as a result of poor performance etc. just because the business is looking to tighten budgets and some head counts need to go. As there will be a reduced workload for me next year, as a knock on impact of reduced business spends, they don't feel they need the position.

I have been told that I have a meeting with them tomorrow to start consultation.

I'm currently 13 + 5 weeks pregnant and work is aware of this.

I would normally be entitled to a maternity package of 4 months full pay and the remaining 39 weeks at SMP. I am not clear whether I would get this if I was made redundant..?

One of the annoying things is that I my role is in short supply in the industry I'm in and have turned down offers recently for other jobs because I know I'm pregnant and didn't want to start somewhere and then leave but also I didn't want to give up my maternity package at my current job.

I'm really scared about what the imminent future holds...please can you offer any advice on what I need to be doing/saying in this meeting tomorrow and what I might expect to happen.

I'm trying to calm myself down as I'm shaking and my tummy is aching with the stress. De-caf tea is at the ready .

Thanks

Crackers.x

So they've said you're at risk. Do you know how many jobs of the 6 are going and when? Do you currently work full time and do you plan to return to work full time? Also, what's your notice period?

If you've been offered jobs with other companies that's good and shows that this need not be a terrible thing to happen and could be an opportunity. Don't stress yet - its early days and these things tend to work out in the end.

As a pregnant woman you have protection in a redundancy process. Information here Don't panic!

Kate- I presume all 6 are going but they have said they will confirm this after the consultation meeting.

Yes, I currently work full time but have been with the company for less than 2 years, so from what I've read, I'll not be entitled to redundancy pay, but will be entitled to SMP. I would have planned to return 4 days.

I think my notice period is 1 month. I'll go and check.

Northern- thanks I will check out that link now.

You have no added protection in a redundancy process as a pregnant woman. You do have right of first refusal of suitable alternative employment positions if you are on maternity leave.

You would not be entitled to statutory redundancy pay but you may be entitled to contractual redundancy pay - does your company have a policy on this?

In a worst case scenario you could be given a 30 day consultation period and then one month's notice which is about 8.67 weeks. That plus your 13.5 weeks takes you up to 22 weeks. That is too early for you to be able to get SMP but you could claim maternity allowance.

In the best case scenario you could negotiate during the consultation to keep some of the jobs but at a reduction of either head count or hours or both. This might be a good option for you if you wish to return to part-time hours any way. Do you know who your employee representatives are yet? It could be worth drawing out the consultation process for as long as possible to get you to 25 weeks but also to examine all of the options including the head count and hour reductions.

Virgil is right there is no extra protection for pregnant women - regulation 10 of the maternity and parental leave regulations requires employers to redeploy women on maternity leave to suitable alternative vacancies where possible. During your pregnancy you have the right to be protected from discrimination relating to that pregnancy so if they select you for redundancy because of your pregnancy that is not legal.

Yes sorry I realise my post wasn't very clear - I meant you are protected against discrimination whilst undergoing the redundancy process. This is v useful as it is alarming how many women just like you are notified of redundancy shortly after informing work that they are pg.

Thanks Kate. That's really helpful. Particularly regarding SMP and the consultation period.

I don't know how feasible it is to draw these things out but I will see what they say tomorrow. Obviously I won't ask them that directly...or can I? Can I negotiate working until the end of Feb say?

I haven't been told who my representative is. The meeting tomorrow is just with the director from what I can see. Doesn't seem to have invited HR or anything. I shall record this meeting.

Presumably if I reduced my hours and just did my job and no other offered, my mat package would be based on that wage i.e. 4 months at that amount.

I'm also due a bonus in February for this year's work- this is something everyone in the business gets. Would I not get this either do you think? I will have still worked there for the full year against which the bonus is calculated.

I have checked but cannot find anything about redundancy pay and there's nothing in my contract about this. So, this seems unlikely.

My notice period is 1 month btw...I checked.

You might not have representatives appointed because there are less than 20 redundancies and they have to consult with you individually any way. Here's a good guide to consultation: www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/Redundancy/DG_10029835

Yes do make sure the meeting is minuted. There should be someone doing that on behalf of your employer and I would expect HR (if there is one/a department) to be in attendance to check everything is being done by the book.

If you took a reduction in hours and it kept you employed then it is likely your occupational maternity pay would be based on a four day week. However, if they get rid of all of you before your 25 weeks you won't get that at all or the enhanced extra 6 weeks that SMP gives vs Maternity Allowance. SMP for the first 6 weeks is based on your qualifying weeks (see here: www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Expectingorbringingupchildren/DG_175917).

Whether you would get the February bonus payment would depend. Is it a contractual bonus? What are the terms of the bonus? If you have to be employed on x date in February to qualify before then and you are made redundant then it is unlikely you would be eligible unless there is some special provision in the scheme or contract.

The important thing with redundancies is that it is not people that are redundant but jobs. If your role is needed in the business then that's a good point to argue.

Go along to the initial consultation meeting and see what they say. Take notes, ask questions about anything you don't understand and try to get an understanding of timescales if you can. Once you have that information you'll be able to make some decisions.

Hi there

Just a little update. So, I went to the meeting. It was just me and the director, but I did ask to record it on my phone, which he agreed to.

I was told my redundancy package would be 3 month's full pay, tax free and I'd still get my Feb bonus (c.4%). He couldn't give me an answer about mat pay when I asked, so I presume I won't get anything to cover this.

Whilst the deal is much better than I thought, I have worked out that I will be at least 10k worse off, and that's before taking into account holidays and loss of share options, and probably other things I can't think of.

On advice of a friend who has been through something similar, I have spoken to an employment lawyer who has made it clear that any thoughts he provides are free of charge at the moment. He's said that within the Compromise Agreement (which I haven't received yet) there should be provision for me to seek legal advice at a cost to the employer. At which point, if negotiation is worth it, he can advise. I hope that sounds right to you?

One thing that has come to light by talking to the lawyers is that I now believe it is plausible that my pregnancy has influenced their decision to make me redundant. Before I told them, there was a big project exclusively for me, which was communicated to the whole business in September. I even have a video of the director talking about how important this project was going to be. Then I told them 20th October I was pregnant and from what I have uncovered, the decision to scrap this project (and make me redundant) was taken on the 24th October. I was only informed that this project was scrapped on the 25th November and have continued to work on it in the meantime. I can't find any evidence that the project was scrapped before I told them I was pregnant. It might exist of course, but it's not obvious to me. I haven't mentioned any of this to employer and don't plan to at this stage. Merely ask questions to understand how the decision to scrap the project was made.

I'm due to have another meeting with the director tomorrow pm. I gave lots of input in my last meeting and there were a few questions he had to go and check.

They keep reassuring me that they will take as long as I need over the consultation and they don't want to stress me out with me being pregnant. So, maybe there is a small chance I could drag it out until I'm 19 weeks (is that right with 4 weeks notice to get SMP?). I'm 14 weeks today.

Thanks in advance for any advice.x

They want to offer you a compromise agreement? I'm not surprised if you're pregnant. I'd do the same if I was working for your employer. Yes, it is normal for them to pay your legal fees because you have to receive legal advice for the CA to be valid.

So are you definitely being made redundant? And what about the other five? If you're all going i would think it's unlikely to be to do with your pregnancy. If it's just you then I would be concerned and asking questions.

If you can keep employed until 15 weeks before your due date you should get your SMP. Bear in mind that your employer may want to pay your notice instead of getting you to work it (this is called PILON, pay in lieu of notice).

They are offering you almost as much in redundancy as you'd get from your maternity leave and giving you your bonus. This doesn't look like discrimination but as I said in my previous post I'm curious about the redundancy pool and the fact it appears to be a done deal.

Oh I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused. The lawyer made it sound like the compromise agreement is a normal part of the process. Is it not? Gosh, it really isn't very clear and straightforward to me. Is it not normal to offer this Compromise Agreement thing?

I think everyone will be made redundant. I think it is very odd for me to go though as I'm the only one that does this job in the business and they have acknowledged that their need to use consultants next year to fill the gap my leaving would create.

They may be offering me similar to maternity package but I'm still short because I will not be able to get a suitable job when I leave at 5 month's pregnant. I know employers can't discriminate against that, but let's be realistic here.

Kate, if you don't think it is a discrimination issue, do you think the package is a fair deal?

And, do you think it's feasible to drag out consultation for a further 5 weeks or so?

Thanks so much for your advice, you're a star!

From an employer's perspective a compromise agreement is a good idea when you are giving more money than legally required. This is because it might look like you have a reason to pay someone off even if you're actually just being a good employer and as generous as you can be. It's also a good idea to get someone to sign to say they won't take action against you (which is essentially what a compromise agreement is) when there is even the faintest possibility someone might make a discrimination claim - including in cases where there has been no discrimination.

You're pregnant. I would be likely to advise an employer making a pregnant woman or one on maternity leave redundant get a compromise agreement signed. So, in your circumstance perfectly normal. They may even be offering one to your colleagues who are going if they are offering more than statutory or contractual redundancy payments.

You say they acknowledge the work is still there. Is it enough for a full time employee? Would they consider keeping you on but returning on a part-time basis to work on projects as and when? If you can get the right childcare you could suggest an annualised contract or monthly hours. I don't know if that's feasible but may be worth considering and raising.

If you are going to be left short that's a good enough reason to ask for more. If you went to a tribunal they would consider factors that would effect your chances to get another job such as pregnancy.

If you do ask for more make sure any discussions and letters are prefaced "without prejudice". Which is the legal way of saying off the record.

You can also negotiate over your leaving date when thrashing out the compromise agreement.

Hi

So just a little update. I have been told the role is officially being made redundant now. I can pick between that and applying for another job within the business.

They are not giving me a compromise agreement, I did ask but they said it's not appropriate. They are giving me an enhanced redundancy package above the 3 months.

In meetings (which I've recorded with permission) the director has said that I will not be worse off financially as a result of the redundancy however, when the package came through, it was about 10k short of what I would expect next year.

I have queried this with HR who have said it wasn't their intention to financially match and it is merely a gesture because I'm pregnant. She was quite rude about it actually, like I was being unreasonable asking for the shortfall.

I'm not really sure where to go from here. With the compromise agreement I felt like I could hand it to a lawyer and they would negotiate for me and the costs for this would be covered as part of the process.

But now I'm being told I won't get one and the package being offered isn't going to cover what I would have brought home.

It's really stressing me out.

Any help appreciated.

"So just a little update. I have been told the role is officially being made redundant now. I can pick between that and applying for another job within the business."

My understanding is that if there is a suitable alternative job available they must offer it to you as you are pregnant, with no need to go through application process.

"My understanding is that if there is a suitable alternative job available they must offer it to you as you are pregnant, with no need to go through application process."

No, I'm afraid that only kicks in when you are on statutory maternity leave.

Plus, I don't want another job. I just want not to be worse off over the coming year, as was promised.

But they're now saying they didn't say this and this is their best and final offer. Even though I have two meetings recorded on my phone where the marketing director said I would not be financially worse off.

They're offering you far more than they need to legally, so you need to focus on whether you have any case for claiming the redundancy is unfair in any way. What you have by the sounds of it is some stuff about dates of when decisions were made, and the fact that they still have a need for your role.

If you don't want to go back anyway therefore don't mind burning your bridges and the aim is to increase your package, I'd suggest appealing the decision on those two grounds; that you feel your role is not genuinely redundant because there is still a need for the work you do, and that you are concerned your pregnancy announcement has influenced their decision.

They could probably refute those things reasonably credibly, but it may prompt them to offer you a bit more and a comp agreement as well.

Your best bet if you want to appeal the decision is to get some legal advice so the letter can be as good as possible tailored to the circumstances, but it would be fine to do it yourself if you want to avoid legal fees at this point.