Additional paternity leave - have you or your partner taken or plan to take it?

[KatieMiddIeton]

Not an issue as such, but more general nosiness!

I've just been chatting to dh about work stuff and having another baby at some point and he mentioned additional paternity leave. We worked out that if we both worked at the same employer (we used to) we'd both be entitled to 15 weeks full pay during the leave. Furthermore, if we juggled annual leave we could have nearly 40 weeks off on full pay after the birth of our [imaginary] baby.

Would knowing this encourage you to go back to work earlier? Or would it not make any difference to you how long you could take off on full pay and whether your dh could take some time off on full pay too?

Oh and also interested in your experiences of applying for or taking APL.

I think people thought you and partner and baby would be off together, but you swap. Mother goes back to work and father/partner stays at home to look after baby.

Depends I think on how much they really want to, and what their pay is like. APL is paid at statutary rates so £124 a week (something like that).

My boyf wants to have some time off, BUT I dont think its practical, he would be on about £400 a month!! and we cant afford that...He'd be better off taking annual leave I think. Depending on how I feel, I intend to go back to work once my full pay finishes, so about 9months I think.

Really? I haven't spoken to anyone who thought you'd be off together. It hadn't even occurred to me anyone would think that. You learn something new don't you?

APL isn't always paid at statutory rates. Dh would get occupational APL so 15 weeks full pay. Hence our 40 week calculation with generous annual leave.

Sal, can I ask you a nosey question: Would you be on statutory maternity pay for the last 33 weeks? And if so, why would you being on SMP instead of your partner being on SMP be a better option? I'm guessing he must earn much more than you??

Full pay, lucky you!

I am taking six months (6weeks at 90% salary, rest at SMP) then taking a month of annual leave.

My husband is taking 13 weeks, starting when my annual leave starts (all on SMP.)

It makes financial sense and is a fab opportunity for my husband. I would love to take a year but it just wouldn't work for us.

I'm afraid I can't get my head around your example (baby not a great sleeper) but I would prefer to run my mat leave and annual leave together rather than going back then taking a lot of annual leave. Though I go back just before the end of the leave year so won't need to worry about keeping annual leave for sickness etc.

Being properly off with cover is brilliant, I feel really detached from work but I know as soon as I go back the stress will begin again!

Hope this makes sense!

Yes that makes sense I don't work at same place as dh so i would only get SMP or maternity allowance.

In my (ficticious) example I would have worked up until the birth again then taken 15 weeks (on full pay), then a 2 or 3 weeks annual leave. Then I would have gone back to work and dh would taken 2 or 3 weeks annual leave to take us up to the 20 week mark (when dh becomes eligible for APL), then dh would take 15 weeks full pay and then we could take some annual leave each at the end.

In reality I would get not v much and dh would take 15 weeks off on full pay while I try to do as much work as possible. Probably like most couples had under the old scheme if they got occupational pay on top of SMP.

KatieMiddleton, ask away - I get 26 weeks full pay then 13 wks stat mat pay then 13wks no pay... OH does earn more than me, but not like, twice as much...Im a fixed salary hes commision based so it varies slightly month to month.

I have loads of holidays left for this year, plus will accrue more when I'm off so think I might take annual leave once my paid leave is over and overlap with OH...can you do that??

This is our first baby and frankly even my HR dept think our policy is worded very badly and difficult to understand. Had a meeting today with HR and they've explained everything better.

I have been researching this as I have been rewritting my company's paternity policy. Interestingly enough, even though it has been in place for a few months, we have had no queries from staff about it so either no-one is really aware of it or no-one wants to do it.

Personally, I would not have done it as I loved being off and cannot see the attraction of returning to work whilst DH stayed at home - call me selfish

The mother has to have returned to work before APL can commence and they must have at least 2 weeks left of their SMP entitlement so must be taken before 37 weeks of maternity leave.

Your DH's employer must be very generous as I have not come across any organisation that pays anything other than statutory pay for the APL.

Wow Sal that sounds a fabulous deal! Once you're on annual leave your dh can do whatever he likes - take apl (if enough weeks left) or annual leave or even unpaid parental leave if at least one year's continuous service.

ceebeegeebies thanks for that. I'm surprised at any organisation offering women enhanced maternity pay but not partners taking apl. There's a huge risk of sex discrimination claims (obviously too early for any case history). Also APL can be taken at any time in the 52 weeks that used to be composed of ordinary maternity leave and additional maternity leave so long as it's for a minimum period of 2 weeks, 8 weeks notice is given and the baby is at least 20 weeks old at the beginning of the period and the mother has returned to work. Unless I've misunderstood and you are referring just to the paid period??

I have been unable to find a good practical guide to APL so wrote my own from the legislation in the end, but if anyone finds one could you point it my way please?

Ceebeegeebies has your new policy been promoted amongst staff?
Although I'm pg myself, I hadn't realised this had come into force - will def look into it (dh has already been - briefly - sahd with ds1) not because I want to return early but I might have to in order to get a job vacancy I want.

Katie our organisation's additional maternity pay is only for 6 months then the employee drops to SMP so, if the father wants to take it during the paid part of the leave, then yes, it would be statutory only as this is what our organisation would pay a woman for the same period of leave iyswim so not discriminatory.

Yes, if the father wants to take APL during the paid part of the leave, it must commence between 20 weeks and 37 weeks and they must be back at work on the baby's 1st birthday.

The legislation also requires the mother to complete a declaration - it is going to be a nightmare to administer if it becomes more popular

igggi no, it hasn't as I have just drafted it and it has to go through about 10 committees for approval so you are probably right that it hasn't been promoted.

But I refer to my first post where I can't actually see many women wanting to sacrifice their maternity leave (apart from exceptional circumstances like yourself) as surely that is one advantage of having a baby (or maybe that was just me )

My DH works for a tiny company - about 20 of them in his office, more abroad. They have him 3 weeks at full pay, which was lovely, especially as he gets 2 weeks off for Xmas anyway - he's just gone back this week after 5 lovely weeks of full pay with me and babe nothing formal in writing or anything though, I guess they'd be on sticky ground legally if everyone demanded it, they only offered him the time as he's had a good year and it's a relatively quiet time. He's been working really long hours already this week though. I handed him babe in tears when he walked in the door today (my tears and babe's!)

Not massively what you were after, but hey ho. Right, now to sleep...

I went back to work recently and dh is on apl with stat pay only.I only got 6 wks at 90% then 12 wks half pay then smp.once on smp made financial sense for us to swap childcare roles as I'm main earner. I've been surprised how well it's working: dh has tea on table for me and is doing all menu planning, shopping washing etc. I'm still doing night feeds which is a killer but ds has health issues that mean breast feeding needs to continue if Poss. It has helped me going back to work knowing dh is safe but if finances were better I'd take longer mostly due to stresses of pumping milk at work.

Ds safe...dh can obviously look after himself!

A lot of women go back before the full year is up though, so there's the option if they go back at 9 months or whatever for their dp to take the rest. I do think it helped mine bond with ds so much more. Actually that's not really what I mean, it's not that other fathers haven't bonded of course, more that being at home makes you get to grips with the nitty gritty of life 24/7 with a little'un! Makes for greater empathy between mother and father!

Oh how I wish my DH wasn't self employed :( He had one day off when I had DS and that was only because I conveniently managed to give birth on a Saturday night

Even though it doesn't apply to us, I think APL sounds great and a fab opportunity for fathers to spend time with their baby.

Ceebee that looks a bit iffy to me. Have you run it past a lawyer yet? Woman gets 6 months enhanced pay, men get just statutory because he is not the mother?? I could understand capping the enhancement to same as mothers (ie up to 6 months full pay minus current rate ASPP plus any ASPP the partner qualifies for). What happens if a man starts apl before the first 26 weeks of oml is up?

There's a form to complete with leave notice, employee declaration and mother's declaration so it shouldn't be more complicated than processing mat leave is now. It's called an SC7. I expect HMRC will have them available to order (but haven't checked that).

I was desperate to go back to work after 4 months. Not that I escaped until DS was 18mo! Bar the breastfeeding there was nothing I did that dh couldn't do and arguably, for me personally, my career would have benefited from me going back earlier.

I agree with iggi...my dh now realises how difficult it is to get anything done and it's definately improved his bond with ds

Thank you everyone for your viewpoints. Very interesting.

passthestuffing How complicated was it to sort out?

This has been great...its our first baby but even before I was pg, when the new paternity rules came into force last year OH expressed a strong wish to be at home for some of it.

I just wonder if I'll be able to "give up" the home life and let him, but I'd feel much better about going back to earlier, if he was at home with baby.

I'm still confused about it, BUT father/partner will always get stat pay wont they?

Ive discovered my contract at work runs out a month after my 12mo mat leave would be up, so I really do need to get back to work as soon as I can!

MrNC has just had his 2-weeks initial paternity leave approved for my dc2, and was asked if he was interested in APL.
We both work for large orgs so I get 6 months full pay then 3 SMP then 3 unpaid and I think his is similar. However he earns nearly 2x my pay so it's financially better for me to be the SAHP - I'm very unlikely to want to go back before 6 months.
Unless it turns out he could get more than SMP for months 6-9 or more than nothing for months 9-12, and I got a decent post to return to, I doubt we'll use it. A few days flexi-leave and a bit more working from home are much more useful to us.

But for people where the mother is the higher earner, this could be really useful.

We should be so lucky. DH has just been told that the two wells full pay he thought he was getting is now only one week so he has to go back on Monday instead of a week later. I'm furious. His boss would have a fit if he wanted longer.

Paternity leave for my dh (teacher) is at the stat rate so while he'll have np probs getting time off, but will be at princely sum of 100 a week.
Is there still a period at the end of the year leave entitlement when yoy don't get paid anything (inc SMP)?

Yes. Weeks 40-52 are unpaid. All that happens with the pay is that the statutory element that used to go just to women can be shared from 20 weeks after the birth (but just to be extea clear once the mother stops maternity leave and consequently her smp or maternity allowance she can't then go back on maternity leave). If employers choose to give extra that is seperate.

Maternity Action has a very useful guide to APL on their website.