Any HR experts out there? Help with a disciplinary appeal please.

[Ohanythingwilldo]

I posted recently about a disciplinary that I was helping my friend with. The outcome has been a written warning and she is planning to appeal. Can you tell me what effect, if any, the following have:

• when approaching a colleague to ask them to be a witness, they already knew that my friend had a disciplinary and what is was about. Are there no rules regarding confidentiality?

• the person who instigated the disciplinary was not actually involved in the matter. The manager who was involved tackled the issue and was satisfied it was dealt with. It was her manager who then forced through a disciplinary.

• the senior manager who forced the disciplinary through was not present when the offence happened

• the senior manager appears to dislike my friend, persistenly marks her low on 360 feedback, (contrary to other senior staff), has sworn in emails to my friend, generally tries to make her life difficult.

Do any of these issues help our appeal or a grievance?

Any help or advice would be very much appreciated.

"when approaching a colleague to ask them to be a witness, they already knew that my friend had a disciplinary and what is was about. Are there no rules regarding confidentiality?"

It depend how and why they knew. If they were approached by the employer when gathering evidence then I dont see a problem - they'll have guessed there was a formal process going on.

"the person who instigated the disciplinary was not actually involved in the matter. The manager who was involved tackled the issue and was satisfied it was dealt with. It was her manager who then forced through a disciplinary."

No problem with this - senior management can do this and should exercise their right to do so if they see fit.

"the senior manager who forced the disciplinary through was not present when the offence happened"

Fine. They can conduct an enquiry/ disciplinary if they are concerned . I have done this about a h&s breach i was not present at but needed to make sure was dealt with.

"the senior manager appears to dislike my friend, persistenly marks her low on 360 feedback, (contrary to other senior staff), has sworn in emails to my friend, generally tries to make her life difficult."

Has your friend complained or made a grievance? If not and they do now then it would look like sour grapes in light of the disciplinary.

Hairylights - thanks for your response.

No, the witness was not involved in any investigation and had no reason to be. It appears that the manager who felt she had sufficiently dealt with the matter, had discussed it with her. There is no obvious reason for the matter to have been discussed.

I accept your point that the senior manager had a right to force a disciplinary.

I agree that complaining about the senior manager could appear sour grapes but it is a case where my friend has just put up with it in the past, but now it seems to have gone a step too far.

None of what you've posted would be grounds for an appeal IMO. If the senior manager has behaved inappropriately in the past your friend can raise a grievance but that will not affect the disciplinary appeal unless it can be shown the disciplinary was without merit.

When appealing you need to think about the following.

1. Did your friend do what s/he is accused of?

1. Is the decision fair? ie with the best investigation and process in the world would it still have come to the same outcome?

1. Is the punishment fair? ie. has she been given a written warning when actually it's a first offence and fairly minor and a verbal might be more appropriate.

Until you can answer what you are appealing you will have no grounds for an appeal.

Thanks KatieMiddleton.

1. Yes, she did do the things accused of although there are some mitigating circumstances

1. The decision seems harsh. We were expecting possibly a letter on file or a verbal warning at most.

If a grievance is raised against the senior manager, should the issue of confidentiality, (the matter being discussed with staff that were not involved) be raised in the same grievance.

Is there any point appealing if it is just a case of the decision being too severe?

Is anything likely to happen if a grievance is raised as much of it would be he said / she said. There is a little evidence through emails but not much.

"Yes, she did do the things accused of although there are some mitigating circumstances"

Then I wouldn't appeal.

I think your friend needs to be very careful how she plays this. If she would have complained about the manager any way then yes, I would put the grievance in. However, if she probably wouldn't have done so if it were not for the disciplinary she needs to think a bit more carefully to avoid looking like she's playing tit for tat unless the disciplinary would not have brought for other employees (ie several employees arrive late for work every day but only one is disciplined).

Were the mitigating factors taken into account? If so you probably don't have any grounds for appeal on that point. If they were ignored you can put that in the appeal.

Yes you can appeal the disciplinary action as being too harsh and request a verbal warning instead of a written. How long will the warning lie on file for? It may not be worth causing a huge fuss if it's 6 months but that will depend on other circumstances.

Did they adjourn before the decision was made? If not you can argue due consideration was not given.

There is no law that says confidentiality about disciplinary/grievance must be preserved. It is best practice under the ACAS code but it's not law.

ACAS guide for employers here www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=1043

Without knowing the details it's very hard to say but it's worth lodging an appeal because you are unlikely to be worse off.