We are hit hard by reality of childcare costs.... just want to moan!!

[confusedperson]

I guess I just wanted to moan a bit. I just went back to work full time after having DC2. My DH stayed with DC for first few months, but now just found his first professional full-time job (so happy about it!). Our joint income will be 53k, which will bring us net around 3.2k per month, and 3.3k including child benefit. Not a small amount, theoretically.
But in reality, after paying mortgage+bills+transport+food (comes close to 2k) we are left with 1.2k to pay for childcare for one 3.5yo and one 1yo. This is far too little in London! We were quoted almost 2k for a month's childcare for both at £4.5 per hour per child. Nurseries would come at 1.6k per month for both, despite of the elder having 15 free hours per week.
I am just lost how to make ends meet. I can't afford to hire a registered childcare, trying to look into cash-in-hands market but even so cannot find anything. Cannot get anyone to live-in, because we have no spare bedroom.
Thinking it is really madness, that with fairly decent jobs, we cannot afford childcare. Cannot afford not to work, too. We are so stuck. It should get easier when DC1 starts school next year September, but even then we will pay around 1.1k for nursery+afterschool care for the next 3 years (well at least we should be able to afford it).
Holidays, treats, going outs and first-hand clothes are long forgotten in our family.
I wonder whether anyone found a miracle solution for such?

CIH will turn out expensive if you get a £3k fine....

one (fairly common) option is to work on the assumption that you just have a couple of years of really high childcare and to go interest only on your mortgage until the dc are in school.

Not saying it is a great plan. But for many it is the only way of absorbing the unavoidably high costs of preschool childcare.

You might want to look into getting a nanny or a childminder for a while. I know it is crazy that you earn well and can't afford childcare. Your first child would start primary school soon. So you may just have 18 months maximum of crazy childcare bills.

Have you factored in childcare vouchers (assuming your employers supply them?) with the tax relief this can make quite a difference.

Yes, the reality for people in the middle - who earn too much to qualify for tax credits, but not enough to afford childcare - is that its tough.

HOWEVER, I would qualify that by pointing out that the situation is not nearly as bad as it used to be. Those my age (mid 40s) with older teenagers were in the same situation, but without the longer maternity leave available now, and without any free hours of childcare for 3 yr olds. We had to pay FULL childcare for our first child from when she was 12 weeks (end of paid maternity leave) until 2 weeks before her 5th birthday! (She is a September baby and didnt start school until almost 5). And of course once they are in school, youll have holiday and before/after school care to factor in

Anyway, after counting your blessings that you're living in 2011 and not having babies 16 years ago... there are a number of things you can do to help. Switching to interest only mortgage may be sensible, as you have a time limit on it. This won't be forever. Once your older child is at school it will get cheaper, and when your younger child is receiving the 15 hours free care the costs will be cut again. So it may only be a year that you need to reduce your mortgage payments.

You may also find that a registered cm works out cheaper than nursery. A cm can be more flexible and may offer a sibling discount. They may also be happy to charge you half rates when you take your annual leave too. Personally I found that the biggest difference between nursery and cm. The nursery charged full rates 51 weeks of the year; the only week off was xmas week when it closed! A cm might then be able to continue doing the school drop off and pick up later on, which would save you having to re think childcare in a years time.

So, while I understand your frustration, the light really is there at the end of the tunnel, and I think you need to just accept that for the moment childcare is a big chunk out of your earnings, but that it wont last forever

both of you (as long as you are both employees) can claim the £247 per month childcare vouchers so saving you tax and NI on that amount x 2. That will save you approx £150 per month.

I would agree with finding a CM (try and find one that will be able to do the school run at your local school so you can keep her on when your 3.5 year old starts school in Sep 12) as life gets a lot more complicated (and not that much cheaper!) once kids are at school - especially when you have one at school, one not at school - have a plan in mind for school hols, inset days etc

I would also look into either a. mortgage holiday for 6 months or b. interest only for an agreed period - but if you can avoid either of these options I personally would try to.

I have an 8 yr old and a 4 yr old so have been paying two lots of childcare for a few years now. Both of mine are now at school and I am not sure I am better off than before as I still need to pay afterschool clubs, school lunch, school trips, holiday clubs etc

We're looking for views on free childcare places for two year olds - who should get it and for how long?

We'd really like to hear what you think...

www.education.gov.uk/consultations/index.cfm?action=consultationDetails&consultationId=1782&external=no&menu=1

Supporting Families in the Foundation Years: Proposed Changes to the Entitlement to Free Early Education
This consultation sets out proposals on the new entitlement for two year olds from September 2013, including which children will be eligible. It also includes proposals on the quality and flexibility of the entitlement for two, three and four year olds.

Hello DepartmentForEducation - I feel the current system is not working as (as I understand it) top up fees are not allowed to funding which is too low - hence you have the situation we are in, that the nursery withdraws from the system - so I am now not entitled to the 15 free hours for my dc. Hence a two tier system.....

I'm in the same boat. Dh and I earn around £75k a year with me on 4 days in expensive city.

We had 3 kids in nursery as close together and just saw light at the of the tunnel as ds1 was going to school in august gone so 2 in nursery and 1 in just breakfast/afterschool club. Found out pregnant again and now just had 4th. When I return in 6 months I'll be faced with over £2k a month in fees for 3 in nursery for 4 days (1 with 15 hours) and wraparound care for 1 at school. I work for nothing other than my sanity, pension and foot of the ladder. It has scuppered out housing plans as we can't afford to buy the house we really need despite large amount of equity. Looked at nannies but they seem more expensive and we are both using the full childcare voucher allowances. It's really tough with mortgage and bills.

MIL may come up on train from 150 miles away to cover 2 kids for a day and a half with overnight stay. This could save £400 a month. I'm also seeing if I can fit a 5 day week into 4 or 4.5 days so my earnings can increase disproportionate to my childcare. I'm hoping we just get thru before David and George take our childcare vouchers away as I'm sure that ones in the post. No doubt another way to hit the working families.

I know it's our own fault for having so many kids but it's tough without family support. All my colleagues seem to have parents on the doorstep to help .

We'll get there one day...moan over

lollistix we are exactly the same as you, 4 children all very close and huge bills and no family around to help.

We only get by because i work 3 days and mostly from home although it has meant me not progressing in my career and getting quite a lot of rubbish work and also doing huge amounts of juggling to reduce childcare bills.

My third child will be going into school in September and my youngest daughter will be three so things do ease off. However, like you, we will be hit by child benefits being cut, which will mean we will lose over 200pounds a month which currently go towards the outrageous childcare bills.

Like you say, I never feel I can moan as it is my choice to have children however for people without family help and/or multimillion pound salaries it is a tough life keeping two careers going.

It shouldn't be this hard surely...

Have you factored in the childcare voucher scheme? That can save a significant amount. Agree that moving to interest only on your mortgage for a while, or just accepting that you might run up debt for a couple of years, is just something you'll have to deal with.

There's no way we could have afforded childcare for 2 either, so we've just had to wait, crappy as that has been :(

I cannot believe I have not responded to this thread, which I thought I did ? probably in my mind! So grateful for all your responses! I am glad to know that I am not the only one in this boat. We managed to find a reasonably priced nanny because she is young and has no experience. The cost of this, of course, is appalling (much higher than mortgage!), but at least we are managing to break even with my tight budget management. I am counting weeks and months, though, until DC1 will start school next year? 9 more months to go!

I know it sounds extreme but we are trying to move to Nz (dh just been offered a transfer there) and one of the reasons we have sought this is due to childcare costs here.

We're looking at a further 2 years of extreme financial pain going forward due to the number if kids we will have in private nursery (our own choice - I accept this) which means more renting a flat totally unsuitable for our family needs. In Nz not only is childcare half the cost (£20 v £40 a day) due to less tight staff ratios but you can also get 20 hours free for over 3s as opposed to the 12 we get here (or 15 -I forget as it barely scratches the surface of our costs). All other costs seem comparable in Nz re rent and food etc but I estimate we could save almost a grand a month on a like for like basis down to the childcare. So for the sake of a two year transfer with potential for extension we thought why not..

God, so glad it's not just us in this situation!! Am pregnant with my second child, both of us in okayish paying jobs (combined income £65-70ish, my OH works in sales) and can't see how we can afford for me to be a SAHM or go back to work. My DS is in nursery paying £820 a month in South London (the cheapest option we could find - we moved into the area solely for this nursery. Thank god it ended up being a great nursery) and we simply have no money left at the end of the day - god knows how we will cope with 2! And, BTW, yes, my problem, who did I think would look after my child?, but I really thought that we would find a way as didn't think it would be unreasonable for middle-wage earners to have 2 children! I have comprehensive spreadsheets on costs and it's looking dire - so dire, in fact, that we're planning to jump ship to Australia. I really, really, really don't want to go, but they pay a childcare costs rebate on 50% per child (up to a max per year). We don't have a mortgage (I wish!) so we can't take a holiday or go interest free....

I hope all those people with kind grandparents who babysit really appreciate them and give them a massive Christmas present this year! ;o)

PS. We live quite frugally, BTW. We have had one night out in the last year, live in a tiny 2-bed in a not nice area, have a 13-year-old car which we don't use unless we have to (but costs a bomb as it's so old with continual repairs), can't remember the last time I bought clothes for ourselves etc. etc.

That is why DD was born after DS started school. Two in childcare would have more than wiped out one salary.

That said, whilst it is tough for a couple of years, you will be able to maintain a career. Having given up work after DD was born my skills and experience are so depleted that I can only apply for NMW type jobs, so that is the flip side of the coin.

I agree 100% with your post jennix.

I think the reality in the UK is you can afford to have children if you are very rich or you're low earning/ in benefits but it's a nightmare for those in the middle. I remember that feeling well- 'can't afford not to work, can't afford to work!'

We paid every single penny of childcare ourselves, never had any subsidies or top ups, and at times really struggled to pay for basics like rent, heating and food. It does get better as childcare costs reduce but yes it's tough while you're in the thick of it. Frankly, people who use relatives for free childcare or who qualify for half or more of their childcare costs paid for them haven't got a clue what the real world of childcare is like

It's such a rip off, isn't it? We earn 107k between us and even on that combined salary it does seem outrageously expensive. That's why we are leaving a decent gap between DC1 and DC2. And it's especially hard if you live in SE England. Someone mentioned paying 40 quid a day. Some nurseries where I live charge not far off 70 quid a day.

Should also add that the outrageous cost of childcare and the state of many comprehensive schools and exorbitant housing costs are the reasons we may stick to one child. I feel that on a combined salary of over 100 grand a year and working 10-12 hour days I want to have some money left over to have some fun. Life is short. This country really does suck in some respects. And nobody has yet mentioned university tuition fees. We want to save up to help DD...if we have another, much harder...we'd end up with no pension either. Sigh.

This is why I chose to have a big gap between DCs and not live in London. Did you not anticipate these problems before now?